Field for simultaneous controller/mouse support?

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Topic title.

 

I think it would be useful info, namely for those who have a Steam Controller and want to know if the support is there. Like for example, Rainbow Six Vegas doesn't allow the use of a controller and mouse at the same time but Half-Life 2 does. It would be nice to know if this is something that could be considered.

[Guest]

The Hot Plugging field is for that, I think.

 

[Garrett 221]

That could be a useful addition under additional information, but I don't know what description would work best.

 

The Hot Plugging field is for that, I think.

 

Hotplugging simply means the game will see a controller if one is connected after the game is already running. This is not the same as being able to use both together (and many games that support hotplugging do not support using both together, e.g. Bethesda's last few RPGs will disable most keyboard functions when controller support is active).

[Mirh 103]

Mhh, can't we just mention it, either in controller support or hotplugging notes?

[Marioysikax 89]

I personally haven't been a fan of mixing the controller and keyboard/mouse when using steam controller, mainly because majority of games haven't been designed that way and drawbacks of not mixing are really minor, but I can see that it would be neat info to have for those who do mix them.

 

When I have been editing game articles, I only mention this if switching between methods requires some significant effort, e.g. needing to manually switch the method of input or even restart the game. I would almost say that noting under hotplugging should suffice, even if this isn't exactly hotplugging, it's still meaning switching to use controller while the game is running. 

[Garrett 221]

Either way, this capability should not be noted under hotplugging unless it is actually applicable (hotplugging is a separate feature, but there might be a few games that support simultaneous input only if started with a particular control arrangement).

[Fifteen 2]

I was thinking aboout adding an "exclusive" state to the controller support propriety, but considering it's supposed to be about the state of controller support rather than the extent of it, a new propriety might be in order. How about "Hybrid controller support" or something similar?

 

EDIT : Come to think about it, there are a few proprieties related to Steam Controller compatibility that might be worth adding, like Native Steam controller bindings (The way XCOM2 and TF2 currently do it).

[Marioysikax 89]

I was thinking aboout adding an "exclusive" state to the controller support propriety, but considering it's supposed to be about the state of controller support rather than the extent of it, a new propriety might be in order. How about "Hybrid controller support" or something similar?

 

EDIT : Come to think about it, there are a few proprieties related to Steam Controller compatibility that might be worth adding, like Native Steam controller bindings (The way XCOM2 and TF2 currently do it).

Input method switching may sound bit better as hybrid controller sounds like suggesting of multiple controllers usage. However switching would make games that require manual switching of controller to be true on table, which doesn't serve the purpose of using them simultaneously. Automatic input method switch? New field would also make it easier to note if game starts to change prompts at seizure level because of two differend inputs. 

 

Native bindings will be pain to do, especially when majoritys native bindings are basically slamming buttons as regular XInput controller and calling it a day without any testing or optimization for better controls. 

 

As for native support, which includes use of haptic feedback and button prompts, I did suggest including steam controller icons in prompt field, but apparently they are too similar to xbox ones and my made images were never accepted - not even as placeholders. So the "native support" section was my temporary solution to at least list the games. 

 

E: Also Xcom 2 support does seem more like marketing than native support. I do not own the game so can't test but as far as I have seen game still uses mouse and keyboard designed interface meaning also no steam controller prompts and haven't heard anyone saying anything about haptic feedback. I actually really love the haptic feedback from guns in CS:GO. 

[Fifteen 2]

Input method switching may sound bit better as hybrid controller sounds like suggesting of multiple controllers usage. However switching would make games that require manual switching of controller to be true on table, which doesn't serve the purpose of using them simultaneously. Automatic input method switch? New field would also make it easier to note if game starts to change prompts at seizure level because of two differend inputs. 

Now that you mention it, I think "Dynamic input selection/switching" is most fitting, since that's what most games actually do. In Bioshock Infinite, for instance, the game appears to technically have distinct keyboard-controller modes, but can receive input from both methods simultaneously (even though that messes with the prompts, as you just mentionned).

 

 

Native bindings will be pain to do, especially when majoritys native bindings are basically slamming buttons as regular XInput controller and calling it a day without any testing or optimization for better controls.

 

E: Also Xcom 2 support does seem more like marketing than native support. I do not own the game so can't test but as far as I have seen game still uses mouse and keyboard designed interface meaning also no steam controller prompts and haven't heard anyone saying anything about haptic feedback. I actually really love the haptic feedback from guns in CS:GO.

 

No, native bindings are precisely there so the steam controller doesn't have to emulate other input methods, and instead just communicate with steam controller-specific hooks in order to trigger in-game actions. While XCOM 2's interface still relies on mouse-control, actual mouse control is kept separate from scrolling, which can be done either via edge-scroll or by binding scrolling to the left trackpad. The game switches action sets on its own, with 3 different sets of actions and mappings depending on whether you're in the menus, on the strategic mac or on the tactical map and you don'T need to configure any of the keyboard and controller bindings in game for any of this to work, just like on other games with native support.

 

 

As for native support, which includes use of haptic feedback and button prompts, I did suggest including steam controller icons in prompt field, but apparently they are too similar to xbox ones and my made images were never accepted - not even as placeholders. So the "native support" section was my temporary solution to at least list the games. 

What you're describing here is native controller support, which is a valid thing to look for when judging a game, but ultimately unrelated to the SC (or at least, not exclusively).

[Mirh 103]

Wait a minute gentlemen.

"Dynamic selection/switching" is surely a nice wording.

 

But why has there to be a selection/switch in the first place?

For everything I think, perfection would be just not caring (or if any, having a switch to turn the whole thing off like in source games).

 

For the records, analog keyboards are now a thing. Yes, sometimes I wonder if science tech has gone too far.

[Marioysikax 89]

But why has there to be a selection/switch in the first place?

For everything I think, perfection would be just not caring (or if any, having a switch to turn the whole thing off like in source games).

Well that's why we are talking about this. Because the best case scenario is that game itself automatically switches it according to control method in use so that user doesn't have to care. But this is PC gaming, so that's not the case with many titles sadly. 

[Mirh 103]

the best case scenario is that game itself automatically switches ...

Again, I don't see why a switch has to exist.

What's the matter with just accepting whatever input is sent?

[Marioysikax 89]

Again, I don't see why a switch has to exist.

What's the matter with just accepting whatever input is sent?

Because when I try the game with the controller, I most certainly would not like to see keyboard promts give to me or not have any acceleration, smoothing or aim-assist on when aiming with bloody sticks. 

 

Maybe we are thinking it in the same way but you just aren't seeing it as switching. Basically the best goal is that the game just takes the input from the device you are actually using and you can just use whatever without need for settings menu or restarting. Thing is that for best user experience, game still has to change settings according to what is being used, most noticeable is the prompts given (which ironically most likely screws the steam controller if mixing inputs).

[Mirh 103]

I most certainly would not like to see keyboard promts give to me or not have any acceleration, smoothing or aim-assist on when aiming with bloody sticks.

Uh, right points.

 

Maybe we are thinking it in the same way but you just aren't seeing it as switching.

Actually, I was writing "best scenario should switch on the fly.." when I realized I used the word "switch".

 

Though, now I'm thinking to those games with nothing similar (acceleration, prompts and aim assist are simply fixed) and.. what's there to make this switch noticeable?

Also: should we introduce a row for "game has controller aids"?

[Fifteen 2]

Uh, right points.

 

Actually, I was writing "best scenario should switch on the fly.." when I realized I used the word "switch".

 

Though, now I'm thinking to those games with nothing similar (acceleration, prompts and aim assist are simply fixed) and.. what's there to make this switch noticeable?

Also: should we introduce a row for "game has controller aids"?

You're right, though, that kind of wording would imply that the game has distinct "keyboard mode" and "controller mode" under the hood, which is not only beyond what the end user can or should know, it's also not the case for all games, which only treat it as an additionnal input method, so "switching" is hardly the best way to put it.

 

Really, all we need to convey is that using a controller doesn't disable the mouse and/or keyboard like it would in, say, Fallout 3/NV/4 or Skyrim and word it so "yes" is a positive awnser to that.

 

"Non-exclusive controller input", perhaps?