Proposal: Remove wikis from General information

[Andytizer 268]

Proposal to remove wikis from General information and the Editing guide.

Wikis were included because generally speaking there was 'the one' wiki everyone used. However with the advent of massive wikifarms, a single game could have several wikis associated with it.

Problems:

• Inconsistencies with 'community wiki' / 'official wiki' terminology - meaningless as all wikis are community wikis
• Wikis don't offer technical information
• If a wiki contains a good technical page, this could be linked to separately

Proposed solution:

• Remove any game wikis from General information

Time limit: 7 days (14th June 2019)

[Rose 255]

I'm okay with the idea and I don't think PCGW will miss out on anything if those links are removed.

When adding a link to an article I'm thinking of whether it would be valuable to a potential reader and how much weight there is to it. There's no universal approach, because linking a wiki or a subreddit for a game released on the EGS with no official platforms to offer is of different value compared to adding it to a game that is on Steam, where the Steam Discussions and Guides platforms are commonly used to achieve the same purpose as that of a subreddit or a wiki, to name a few.

I don't think the discussion started over the presumed confusion between official vs community. It was Aemony asking about the more appropriate wording for a non-official wiki - "community" (used by me) vs "unofficial" (used by Aemony). It's of no essence but my argument for and reasoning behind the word "community" is purely based on the guidelines and commonly used words in the articles - GOG.com Community Discussions, Steam Community Discussions, and especially Community wikis - all taken from Key points and General information. The word "unofficial" isn't even used on the page.

[Andytizer 268]

The thing about GOG and Steam 'Community' is that it is the name of the page, we just link them with that name because it's what their titles are and it so happens that these titles are descriptive. However they are essentially forums with threads and replies.

I am open to the ideas of discussing Community vs Unofficial but this should be a separate thread with a proposed outcome.

[Aemony 124]

Right now I'll abstain from making a choice either for or against, as I can't really make up my mind on it yet.

 

For removal:

• What's mentioned in the opening post.
• Games in a series often have the same franchise-reaching wiki listed on all games in that series.
• Can be the cause of edit wars as a result of "competing" unofficial wikis.
  • This is applicable for all non-official links.
• In the case of multiple "competing" wikis being available, no simple answer for editors is available on which one to include.
  • This is applicable for all non-official links.

 

Against removal:

• Still relevant to visitors in some fashion, and the General information section "is a list of general links that are relevant to the game."
• This touches partially on what PCGW wants to be, and cover. PCGW have included mentions of official/community wikis as well as "fan sites" as acceptable being listed in the General information section for years now, and while perhaps a wiki haven't been listed in all cases, it is one of the more frequently seen links of articles. This is one of the least "technical-focused" aspects of articles, and is more about general information about the universe of the game etc.
  • Basically, do PCGW only want to concern itself with technical stuff about a game, or try to serve as a universal springboard for further resources a player might want.
    • Should players be linked to PCGW only when it concerns technical matters, or should PCGW be able to link players forward in non-technical matters as well?
  • This relates to possible discoverability of titles through PCGW, if such a thing is desired as a goal of the site.
• Minor food for thought that can potentially be affected:
  • How would search engine rankings be affected by the removal of these sorts of keywords?

 

Alternative proposals:

• #1: Remove unofficial wikis only, and keep official wikis when possible.
• #2: Don't change anything, but clear up the phrasing involved when listing unofficial wikis in the Editing Guide, and continue to allow the PCGW community to sort this out themselves what wiki to link to as have been done for years.

[Waschbär 2]

1 hour ago, Aemony said:

#1: Remove unofficial wikis only, and keep official wikis when possible.

This would be my choice if any change would have to be made and it is the way I've been listing wikis in the past. Usually these are the ones that are linked on a games official website.

 

However, all the above mentioned problems can just as well be applied to fan sites and not only wikis. So this discussion should probably concern both types of content.

[Mars icecream 57]

I haven't yet thought this through, but I'm in favor of removing at least Wikia (fandom.com, wikia.org) as the information in the game wikis is often unsourced and non-encyclopedic (subjective most commonly), in addition to Wikia, Inc. being a for-profit company with millions in funds

I can't recall of Wikia has hosted the "official" wiki for a major game.

[Vetle 19]

If wiki links are to be removed, we should consider making exemptions for the following sites:
ftlwiki.com
gunpointwiki.net
prisonarchitectwiki.com
siryouarebeinghuntedwiki.com

[Mars icecream 57]

Is it allowed to start removing Wikia (now fandom.com) under "general information" in all articles? For instance the Harry Potter series pages always include this line:

{{mm}} [http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Harry Potter Wiki] - A massive wiki for the Harry Potter universe

"Massive" is subjective and the URL is entirely outdated (but redirects) — should be completely in any case.

[Rose 255]

Just now, Mars icecream said:

"Massive" is subjective and the URL is entirely outdated (but redirects) — should be completely rewritten in any case.

I would remove the "massive" part without thinking. Absolutely subjective indeed.

[Mars icecream 57]

I decided to take down all Wikia pointers from general information. I hope that the proposal will be concluded soon.

I won't touch any other pages for now. The Lego Harry Potter games also linked to the Lego Wikia.

[Mirh 100]

On 6/7/2019 at 3:45 PM, Andytizer said:

Wikis don't offer technical information

False

Then of course, not every wiki can be as thorough as ME one. But if any this should be the determinant factor. 

Is that an actually useful resource, perhaps with many people to get in touch with, or is just like ten not-even-finished pages?

On 6/7/2019 at 5:02 PM, Aemony said:

This touches partially on what PCGW wants to be, and cover. PCGW have included mentions of official/community wikis as well as "fan sites" as acceptable being listed in the General information section for years now, and while perhaps a wiki haven't been listed in all cases, it is one of the more frequently seen links of articles. This is one of the least "technical-focused" aspects of articles, and is more about general information about the universe of the game etc.

I'm really desperately in need of an answer to this too.