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Odie5533

Proposal: Achievements support

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1 hour ago, Odie5533 said:

I mocked up a few different possibilities. The first is it added to the Availability section alongside Keys.

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I like the first one the most, i'd move the cloud saves sections up there too.

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The reason why I don't like putting it in Availability is that, many of those will be repeated, because there is generally a dominat distribution platform.

Reworking cloud to something more general that lists both makes more sense to me, cause the repetition is gone automatically this way, most of those platforms do handle Cloud (and those which don't, should finally implement the freakin' thing, cause it's 2020 - if we are forced to use them, let this at least come with benefits and not just downsides) and finally we generally don't put many notes in Save Cloud fields anyway.

Question then remains however, how, how to approach older titles like Mass Effect that handled them in-game... which for me, a note would be good enough.

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The issue of putting achievements into a new section is that it's not clear which 'version' of the game uses which achievements. This could be clarified in Availability. Yes there is a dominant platform normally, but I think it's okay to be repetitive for the sake of clarity.

For example, a game like Assassin's Creed Origins comes out on Steam and Uplay. Does it use Steam achievements or Uplay achievements? Steam achievements if you buy it on Steam, Uplay if you buy it on Uplay. But this is different from previous games - Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag - if you buy on Steam you can only get Uplay achievements.

The Achievements column in Availability shouldn't be a tick box - it should contain the same store icons as DRM. The column should state whether you get achievements:

  • In-game 
  • GOG Galaxy
  • Steam
  • Uplay
  • Microsoft
  • Rockstar

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14 minutes ago, Andytizer said:

The issue of putting achievements into a new section is that it's not clear which 'version' of the game uses which achievements. This could be clarified in Availability. Yes there is a dominant platform normally, but I think it's okay to be repetitive for the sake of clarity.

For example, a game like Assassin's Creed Origins comes out on Steam and Uplay. Does it use Steam achievements or Uplay achievements? Steam achievements if you buy it on Steam, Uplay if you buy it on Uplay. But this is different from previous games - Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag - if you buy on Steam you can only get Uplay achievements.

The Achievements column in Availability shouldn't be a tick box - it should contain the same store icons as DRM. The column should state whether you get achievements:

  • In-game 
  • GOG Galaxy
  • Steam
  • Uplay
  • Microsoft
  • Rockstar

Good point... still, not liking putting it in Availability - section has a bit of a tendency of getting heavy with content already, especially if multiple DRMs are used or retail releases have different protection methods.

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3 hours ago, Andytizer said:

The issue of putting achievements into a new section is that it's not clear which 'version' of the game uses which achievements. This could be clarified in Availability. Yes there is a dominant platform normally, but I think it's okay to be repetitive for the sake of clarity.

For example, a game like Assassin's Creed Origins comes out on Steam and Uplay. Does it use Steam achievements or Uplay achievements? Steam achievements if you buy it on Steam, Uplay if you buy it on Uplay. But this is different from previous games - Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag - if you buy on Steam you can only get Uplay achievements.

The Achievements column in Availability shouldn't be a tick box - it should contain the same store icons as DRM. The column should state whether you get achievements:

In a new subsection under Other information you can clarify in the notes field for the cases where Stem gives achievements on uPlay.

I think it's rare enough that in either case (Availability or new Other information subsection) it could be handled with Notes or citations allowing us to keep the information at a glance simple with only a tickbox.

4 hours ago, Suicide machine said:

The reason why I don't like putting it in Availability is that, many of those will be repeated, because there is generally a dominat distribution platform.

...

Question then remains however, how, how to approach older titles like Mass Effect that handled them in-game... which for me, a note would be good enough.

What do you mean by repeated? As for older titles, we could use the tickcross-unknown accompanied by either a superscript note or a Notes field, depending on which method is chosen.

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12 hours ago, tyl0413 said:

I wouldn't count those or atleast they'd have to be marked differently than platform achievements, since those are less useful, can't be tracked outside of game, usually not accessible by achievement sites ect

Same way with cloud saves only games with platform cloud saving are shown even though some still sync data with the in game account for example.

I think we should probably track save game cloud syncing if it's done with an in-game account.

In older games pre-Steam achievements, people may want to know if there are in-game achievements - it's something we should track as a property.

 

8 hours ago, Suicide machine said:

Good point... still, not liking putting it in Availability - section has a bit of a tendency of getting heavy with content already, especially if multiple DRMs are used or retail releases have different protection methods.

I think perhaps removing the Keys column would give it enough space. Keys are nearly always redundant compared to DRM.

 

4 hours ago, Odie5533 said:

What do you mean by repeated? As for older titles, we could use the tickcross-unknown accompanied by either a superscript note or a Notes field, depending on which method is chosen.

If we did it as a row in 'Platform features' (which I think is still a strong contender) or 'Other information', then we should definitely track it as a property, then we could make lists like Like of games that support Uplay save game cloud syncing

There is a lot of information in our tables which follows a similar path - 

If a game has Steam DRM -> probably has Steam save game syncing -> probably has Steam achievements
If a game has uPlay DRM -> probably has Uplay save game syncing -> probably has Uplay achievements

Of course there are many exceptions which is exactly what we'd like to highlight.

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Putting achievements (or cloud support) into the actual availability rows is not a workable solution--that would make it impossible to track support for that feature for versions of the game that are no longer sold.

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7 minutes ago, Garrett said:

Putting achievements (or cloud support) into the actual availability rows is not a workable solution--that would make it impossible to track support for that feature for versions of the game that are no longer sold.

Yes this is right, it'll also make it much more difficult to list the third party key vendors properly.

Does it make the most sense to put a new section called Platform features as an H3 inside Availability, right under the Availability table. Then we could rework and integrate Save Game Cloud Syncing into that section with added Achievements functionality?

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On 5/5/2020 at 12:20 AM, Andytizer said:

The Achievements column in Availability shouldn't be a tick box - it should contain the same store icons as DRM. The column should state whether you get achievements:

  • In-game 
  • GOG Galaxy
  • Steam
  • Uplay
  • Microsoft
  • Rockstar

This is a pretty good list. But it should be a property of savegames (or something along that) then, rather than platform-specific.

Otherwise it's pretty stupid to repeat everywhere that for example mass effect has in-game achievements (and hell, I wonder if some games couldn't have both in-game and platform-specific).

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On 5/10/2020 at 7:56 PM, Mirh said:

This is a pretty good list. But it should be a property of savegames (or something along that) then, rather than platform-specific.

Otherwise it's pretty stupid to repeat everywhere that for example mass effect has in-game achievements (and hell, I wonder if some games couldn't have both in-game and platform-specific).

Fallout New Vegas has both in-game and Steam achievements, labeled as "challenges" and it unlocks various perks in the game.
I think having achievements supports is a good idea - I'm a sucker for those when they add replay value and I'm far from being alone. So personally I consider achievements as a feature. 

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This is a great idea. If we ever go with it, I also propose to mention when necessary if the game has achievements/trophies on consoles but not on PC. This is the case for many PS3/X360 generation games.

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