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AA, AF, Vsync and forcing through GPU


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#41 Mirh

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 12:22 PM

So there is no pretending here.

Uh.. First of all, hats off to all that information. Really.
Second.. Perhaps should I have said "individually different" types?
 
Anyway, I dunno if you recently edited the table, it seems golden now. Bravo.
 

No contradicting, you can in fact import profiles. However, all this will do is import pre-defined settings made by someone for a profile in Inspector.
If we were to do such a thing, there would have to be multiple profiles(One for MSAA,etc) made for every single game that requires special bits. Not accounting for games that have special requirements.
Just making profiles for every game that only import the Flags needed wouldn't solve the problem of telling people what they can do with those bits once they are imported.

Well, the aim of the wiki would indeed be "having people not to bother with details" (for as much, if anyone want to deepen we shall have it covered too).
 
Also.. I'm confused. Aren't "special requirements" the bits themselves?
And do you even need different bits for each AA mode in the same game?
What does "importing the flags" means?

As for the AA page affair, I think a simple Nvidia Anti Aliasing Bits page could work.(Things could be redirected there.)
I just need to basically format the page as a table with multiple columns.

Why not simply Nvidia inspector page?

 

That reminds me, for DSR as well, there are a few hacks you can use to bypass the pre-determined ratios to get basically any Resolution you want based on axis multipliers or resolution%(DSRTool). DSR can be combined with any of the above forced AA methods, and works functionally well up to 16x resolution (4x4).
DSR TOOL

Uh, cool.

Speaking of which, did anybody ever manage to have it working on Optimus laptops?

And besides, were you aware of this?



#42 Mars icecream

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 03:43 PM

AA settings have no effect in The Evil Within (id Tech 5): http://community.pcgamingwiki.com/gallery/album/90-the-evil-within-aa

 

Is id Tech 5 engine this problematic? I recall hearing some complaints when Wolfenstein: The New Order launched (the game had no AA options).



#43 BONKERS

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Posted 01 October 2016 - 04:02 AM

 

Uh.. First of all, hats off to all that information. Really.
Second.. Perhaps should I have said "individually different" types?
 
Anyway, I dunno if you recently edited the table, it seems golden now. Bravo.
 

I did recently edit the information in the Google Spreadsheet, I had totally forgotten that tab existed.
I am not the one who created the document, but I am the one who has maintained and kept it up to date for last 3 years or so. It was in a very very sorry state before I took over.
 

 

Well, the aim of the wiki would indeed be "having people not to bother with details" (for as much, if anyone want to deepen we shall have it covered too).
 
Also.. I'm confused. Aren't "special requirements" the bits themselves?
And do you even need different bits for each AA mode in the same game?
What does "importing the flags" means?

Not having to bother with the details would be great honestly. But it's not always that simple.
That's why the google document mentions any special instructions that any individual game needs. 
For bits, yes different ones provide different functions. For example, if you wanted to force MSAA. It requires a different flag most of the time than say SGSSAA.
And with SGSSAA sometimes, different flags provide different results. Peoples choice might hinge on personal preference.

Like with many later UE3 games. They have FXAA forced on no matter what unless you disable Post Processing completely. Which means you lose Tone Mapping, Bloom , DoF and many other effects. So the user has to decide if they are ok with FXAA potentially getting in the way of SGSSAA working as well as it is supposed to. Which might be mitigatable with additional downsampling. Or lose all those effects

Another example is Dawn of War II series. One flag AA's everything fairly well. Including the UI. Another flag skips the UI and the resulting AA is slightly sharper, but has slightly worse aliasing. The game UI scales with resolution, so downsampling isn't very viable an alternative because the UI becomes too small.
So the person has to decide on the look that they like. Whether they'd rather use sharpening after the fact or are fine with it as is.
DOW II
No AA https://abload.de/img/noaag6st4.png
8xSGSSAA with flag that gets everything. https://abload.de/img/12c18xsgssaaans5e.png
8xSGSSAA with flag that skips the UI/is sharper https://abload.de/img/12c48xsgssaa96s5j.png


Importing flags means, you can export profiles from Nvidia Profile Inspector for a given application and any settings changed by the user (As long as the option to ignore pre-defined values is set) will be put into a file. Then someone else could import that file and then they'd have a profile for say
Dead Rising 1 - With the AA flag set, and Enhance application setting and 4xSGSSAA set. Since forcing is impossible, the user would have to make sure 4xMSAA is enabled in game for this example.

The problem lies in, that you'd have to make multiple profiles to export per game with each different setting set (Example. 1 profile with 4xSGSSAA set. One with 8xSGSSAA set, and so on) . Or just ones with the different AA flags set on the profile. The user would still need to know what they can do with that flag once it's imported and any special instructions from the game side.

I mean I guess theoretically one could create a tabled page with profiles to import for different settings and any special instructions. Basically what the Google Spreadsheet already is, but with a lot of links to importable profiles for each different setting. Rather than just giving the user the information and letting them input and set it up themselves.
Going that method, given that there are 571 Game entries including duplicates in the spreadsheet, just for SGSSAA alone if possible (2x,4x,8x) that's 1713 .nip files i'd have to make one at a time. Even if I was just making profiles with the different AA flags on them so people could import them and then set the AA manually. That's 571 .nip files i'd have to generate and then hope the user knows what to do afterward.

That's just how the application works.

 

 

Why not simply Nvidia inspector page?

The NPI page I made was already flagged for being too long and too wordy. If I added a section at the bottom in a table format for all the AA flags, that'd increase the page length a significant amount.

I mean, I COULD do this. Whether the Site admins/owners agree with it. Is another thing.

 

 

Speaking of which, did anybody ever manage to have it working on Optimus laptops?

And besides, were you aware of this?

I am aware of this guy. Really shady character, unwilling to take criticism or skepticism. That we should just accept his word as fact. Rather than engaging in conversation and trying to help educate his point of view and ideas.

He has multiple times tried to create these registry changes that supposedly make games run way better and other stuff But really didn't seem to amount to anything when people actually took the risk and installed them. Similar situation.
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=405360

I don't necessarily think everything was fake that he was talking about perhaps. But the whole situation could've gone a whole lot better.

Whether Nvidia makes the Hardware Module purely as source of profit for G-Sync, is a toss up. There have been multiple blind tests done that show that people often pick out G-sync as the better of the two. We don't know the cost of these modules and the licensing they charge. Will they be in a manner that makes sure Nvidia makes money off of it? Sure that's what any business does. But it would be nice to see the price and point of entry come way down.
I'd really kill for just a 60hz Gynsc basic 1080p monitor.


 

AA settings have no effect in The Evil Within (id Tech 5): http://community.pcgamingwiki.com/gallery/album/90-the-evil-within-aa

 

Is id Tech 5 engine this problematic? I recall hearing some complaints when Wolfenstein: The New Order launched (the game had no AA options).

FXAA can't be forced from Nvidia control panel:

 

 

You are right it doesn't, because IdTech5 uses OpenGL. So you are at the mercy of the developer to support Anti Aliasing. Most modern OpenGL games dont' allow for any kind of AA to be forced from the Driver for Nvidia cards. IdTech4 games worked, but not IdTech5. There are no compatibilty bits for OGL.


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#44 Mars icecream

Mars icecream


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Posted 01 October 2016 - 05:04 AM

You are right it doesn't, because IdTech5 uses OpenGL. So you are at the mercy of the developer to support Anti Aliasing. Most modern OpenGL games dont' allow for any kind of AA to be forced from the Driver for Nvidia cards. IdTech4 games worked, but not IdTech5. There are no compatibilty bits for OGL.

 

All of the AA settings (FXAA, MLAA, SMAA) captured in screenshots are in-game settings. I didn't try forcing, only injecting in the last screenshot.



#45 BONKERS

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 06:46 AM

Oh, whoops. I didn't actually look at your pictures. AA is definitely not working .
Wonder what could be the cause. Are you using any mods or autoexec changes? Perhaps it's broken when not using letterboxing?



#46 Mars icecream

Mars icecream


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Posted 02 October 2016 - 09:01 AM

Oh, whoops. I didn't actually look at your pictures. AA is definitely not working .
Wonder what could be the cause. Are you using any mods or autoexec changes? Perhaps it's broken when not using letterboxing?

 

EDIT: Ignore, caused by "r_skipglare 1" command. I didn't know the commands stick...


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#47 Mirh

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 09:41 AM

Is id Tech 5 engine this problematic? I recall hearing some complaints when Wolfenstein: The New Order launched (the game had no AA options).

Yes it is.

 

That's just how the application works.

Thankfully we can change it :p

And I mean, to an extent your profiles are even made default ones in Inspector (is there anybody else on the net working on them?)

 

Or at least make .nip be able to carry more than a single game.

 

He has multiple times tried to create these registry changes that supposedly make games run way better and other stuff But really didn't seem to amount to anything when people actually took the risk and installed them. Similar situation.

Tbh I read some people were reporting quite big improvements there.


He has multiple times tried to create these registry changes that supposedly make games run way better and other stuff But really didn't seem to amount to anything when people actually took the risk and installed them. Similar situation.

 

Whether Nvidia makes the Hardware Module purely as source of profit for G-Sync, is a toss up. There have been multiple blind tests done that show that people often pick out G-sync as the better of the two. We don't know the cost of these modules and the licensing they charge. Will they be in a manner that makes sure Nvidia makes money off of it? Sure that's what any business does. But it would be nice to see the price and point of entry come way down.

I'd really kill for just a 60hz Gynsc basic 1080p monitor.

Link?

Anyway the point doesn't even need to be "do you need hardware module to have g-sync".

It has to simply be "do you need hardware module to see an[y kind whatsoever of] improvement".

 

And in this, I feel like nvidia has been pretty of a prick.

Spoiler

Spoiler



#48 BONKERS

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 03:56 AM

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-freesync-versus-nvidia-g-sync-reader-event,4246.html

I couldn't tell you about Guru3D registration.
Could try https://www.guru3d.com/content-page/contact-us.html

 

 

Or at least make .nip be able to carry more than a single game.

It actually can. If I wanted, I could make a nip file with a flag on every profile of every compatible game.
But again, doesn't help out cases where there are multiple flags, nor games with special instructions.
There ultimately wouldn't be much point or benefit over just having someone copypaste the flags themselves.



#49 Mirh

Mirh


  • Posts: 796

Posted 09 October 2016 - 12:40 PM

On laptops is different indeed.

From what I read, it's really plain simple VESA sync (which TIL in turn is different from freesync)

 

Referring to your link instead, if you check this, I think there are too many variables there to reeealy assess whether the tech (rather than the driver) is at fault.

 

I couldn't tell you about Guru3D registration.
Could try https://www.guru3d.com/content-page/contact-us.html

That's the page from which I got the "you are below our requirements" reply -.-

Don't you know any admin there to report this disgrace? :c

 

It actually can. If I wanted, I could make a nip file with a flag on every profile of every compatible game.

But again, doesn't help out cases where there are multiple flags, nor games with special instructions.
There ultimately wouldn't be much point or benefit over just having someone copypaste the flags themselves.

Oh right, sorry, that was the problem.

... I'd even open an issue on github tracker asking for "game multi-profile" support or something then, if only the thing could start on my amd computer.



#50 Mars icecream

Mars icecream


  • Posts: 175

Posted 25 October 2016 - 06:06 PM

No... non-functional AA setting appears in another game,  The Testament of Sherlock Holmes.

http://community.pcgamingwiki.com/gallery/album/103-the-testament-of-sherlock-holmes-anti-aliasing/

 

I haven't done any modifications, only removed intro videos.

AA can be forced in Nvidia Control Panel.

 

EDIT: I haven't yet had time for testing (the following message by BONKERS).



#51 BONKERS

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 03:05 AM

Does the same happen with 4xAA selected?

Does it do the same if you put the intro videos back?

Are you playing in Windowed mode? That might be a possibility. Try FSE.

Also: On try a 16:10 resolution or 4:3 too, you never know.

I'm surprised the CSAA option is working for you. Do you have a Pre Maxwell card?

 


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#52 Mars icecream

Mars icecream


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Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:41 PM

I'm surprised the CSAA option is working for you. Do you have a Pre Maxwell card?

 

Me too, GTX 780 Ti.



#53 Mars icecream

Mars icecream


  • Posts: 175

Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:46 PM

Can I safely force AA globally in Nvidia control panel (override any AA setting, 32x CSAA)? I don't like to configure individually for every game, I must have over 100 games I can force proper AA to.

I know that forcing AF causes some issues (disables effects in Alan Wake, causes flickering in id Tech 5 game The Evil Within).



#54 BONKERS

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 05:55 AM

It will cause issues in some games. And in the majority it will do absolutely nothing.

First i've heard of AF causing issues in AW. Nvidia has built in overrides for games that have issues with AF, making it so you can't force it unless you disable the lock they have on each profile.


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#55 Mars icecream

Mars icecream


  • Posts: 175

Posted 2 weeks ago

I found Half-Life: Opposing Force screenshots from my late Linux installation. AA covers jagged lines far better than than the default and only AA method 4x MSAA (AA can't no no longer be forced in HL as discussed in the thread), I wonder what anti-aliasing method I have used?
Gallery: http://community.pcgamingwiki.com/gallery/image/2709-1/

gallery_2137_120_1049075.png






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