Proposal: Achievements support

[Odie5533 5]

I would like to propose that the existence of achievements for a game be somehow catalogued. It can vary by platform like when Steam has achievements but Origin or Xbox does not. I think PCGamingWiki is the most suitable source for cataloguing this information.

[Suicide machine 53]

I like the idea, but for now I am trouble figuring out how would be do it, without drastically extending pages.

[Odie5533 5]

17 minutes ago, Suicide machine said:

I like the idea, but for now I am trouble figuring out how would be do it, without drastically extending pages.

Possible ways:

1. Adding it to the Infobox.
2. Adding it to the {{Availability}} box alongside each platform.
3. Categories [[Games with Steam Achievements]]
4. Adding a new Achievements template to the Other information section.

I am keen on the last method. The template could even be written to automatically add the page to certain categories if that functionality were desired.

[Suicide machine 53]

14 minutes ago, Odie5533 said:

Possible ways:

1. Adding it to the Infobox.
2. Adding it to the {{Availability}} box alongside each platform.
3. Categories [[Games with Steam Achievements]]
4. Adding a new Achievements template to the Other information section.

I am keen on the last method. The template could even be written to automatically add the page to certain categories if that functionality were desired.

1. Infobox would be one place, but you can't mention it per platform there.

2. While the idea for a box in Availability isn't too bad, I don't think it is a place.

3. Categories if anything would be something done automatically when stating it in other sections, but I do believe if we get around to listing which games have them and which not, a better way will be just properties (just like we do pretty much with everything else that is true/hackable/false/limited).

4. Again don't think it's big enough to justify having a separate section, however... maybe a good idea would be to reworking Save game cloud syncing  to something more general, where both options could be stated (whatever the game has cloud saves and whatever it supports achievements)... would also put a tiny bit of pressure for EGS to finally implement the freakin' thing (not like we are anywhere big enough for them to notice).

[Odie5533 5]

That seems like a great idea! The {{Save game cloud syncing}} could be changed to {{Platform features}} and include initially cloud syncing and achievements, and later be expanded to things like Workshop support if any other platform decided to join Steam in welcoming in 2011.

[Mirh 103]

Are there really games that, once they have achievements on a platform, don't replicate those on the others (as long as they support themselves the feature to begin with)?

Or better yet, is this such a common thing that you couldn't just casually mention it in the availability notes?

[Aemony 142]

1 hour ago, Mirh said:

Are there really games that, once they have achievements on a platform, don't replicate those on the others (as long as they support themselves the feature to begin with)?

Or better yet, is this such a common thing that you couldn't just casually mention it in the availability notes?

This, pretty much.
 

The discussion, as short as one would be, could mostly be boiled down to whether a game was released before or after on a platform after said platform received support for achievements. If before, very rare to have support for achievements. If after, rare to not have support for achievements.

 

Provided the game includes achievements on any other platform to begin with, of course.

[Suicide machine 53]

3 minutes ago, Aemony said:

This, pretty much.
 

The discussion, as short as one would be, could mostly be boiled down to whether a game was released before or after on a platform after said platform received support for achievements. If before, very rare to have support for achievements. If after, rare to not have support for achievements.

 

Provided the game includes achievements on any other platform to begin with, of course.

Actually I think there would be "enough" titles to justify existence of such element on our pages - same games like let's Witcher 2, Knights of old Republic 2 still don't feature achievements on GOG, but they do on Steam. Similarly, it looks like there is going to be a period when Saints Row 2 will feature achievements on Steam, before GOG version gets updated, as developer stated they are focusing on that and update for other platforms might come later. I really don't see a reason why we shouldn't do this for achievements, if we already have very similar situation for Save could with identical results as well.

[Odie5533 5]

  

2 hours ago, Mirh said:

Are there really games that, once they have achievements on a platform, don't replicate those on the others (as long as they support themselves the feature to begin with)?

Or better yet, is this such a common thing that you couldn't just casually mention it in the availability notes?

Yes. From what I'm seeing, most of the time the achievements are not replicated. At best there is enormous variance for achievement support among GOG, Steam, Xbox, and Origin. Most developers only implement achievements on Steam.

Fez, Slay The Spire, Hollow Knight, Wasteland 2, Tyranny, The Turing Test, The Surge, and dozens and dozens of other games have achievements on Steam but not on the Xbox PC App. By my count, only a small percentage of games with achievements on Steam have achievements on the Xbox platform.

Stardew Valley, Darkest Dungeon, Slay the Spire, The Long Journey Home, Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition, Factorio, Stellaris, Terraria and loads of others have achievements on Steam but not GOG. Recent games added to GOG  like "Not Tonight: One Love", Murder by Numbers, and Yes, Your Grace have achievements on Steam but not GOG.

[Odie5533 5]

53 minutes ago, Aemony said:

This, pretty much.
 

The discussion, as short as one would be, could mostly be boiled down to whether a game was released before or after on a platform after said platform received support for achievements. If before, very rare to have support for achievements. If after, rare to not have support for achievements.

 

Provided the game includes achievements on any other platform to begin with, of course.

I think there might be some confusion with the word platform. I mean distribution platform like Steam, Origin, GOG, Xbox (the PC storefront), and uPlay.

[Mirh 103]

So, as I have been pointed out, more than "this platform does or doesn't support achievements", there's also the hidden premise of "this store now does, but when this game originally released they didn't". Meaning that indeed, it's nontrivial to know whether the game updated or not.

*Still*, even though I suppose we could properly introduce all kinds of flags and proprieties in the availability table (which could in turn hook cloud saving), I'm wondering if just stating it out in the notes couldn't already be enough.

[tyl0413 3]

22 hours ago, Odie5533 said:

That seems like a great idea! The {{Save game cloud syncing}} could be changed to {{Platform features}} and include initially cloud syncing and achievements, and later be expanded to things like Workshop support if any other platform decided to join Steam in welcoming in 2011.

I like the idea to add it as a section like cloud saves. It's the two features i always check for before buying a game, and sometimes it's hard to figure it out where achievements are supported with not everyone properly listing it on the store page or having only in game achievements in the gog version of postal 2 for example instead of gog achievements.

[Andytizer 269]

Another factor is potentially 'in-game' achievements - or achievements that are tracked in-game that don't necessarily sync to a platform. By achievements I specifically mean in-game popups that track progress and not just generic stat tracking. I believe there are several games which have in-game achievements and are patched in later to get Steam achievements etc.

I think Achievements might belong in Availability because it behaves a lot like the 'key' column - it shows whether the game syncs achivements to a specific platform, e.g Steam, Uplay, in-game etc. For the gamer who loves achievements, you might want to know which version to buy without having to scroll further down the page.

[Odie5533 5]

I mocked up a few different possibilities. The first is it added to the Availability section alongside Keys.

The second is adding it to the cloud sync section which I've renamed to Platforms features.

Last is adding it to the bottom in a new subsection under Other information.

[tyl0413 3]

2 hours ago, Andytizer said:

Another factor is potentially 'in-game' achievements - or achievements that are tracked in-game that don't necessarily sync to a platform. By achievements I specifically mean in-game popups that track progress and not just generic stat tracking. I believe there are several games which have in-game achievements and are patched in later to get Steam achievements etc.

I think Achievements might belong in Availability because it behaves a lot like the 'key' column - it shows whether the game syncs achivements to a specific platform, e.g Steam, Uplay, in-game etc. For the gamer who loves achievements, you might want to know which version to buy without having to scroll further down the page.

I wouldn't count those or atleast they'd have to be marked differently than platform achievements, since those are less useful, can't be tracked outside of game, usually not accessible by achievement sites ect

Same way with cloud saves only games with platform cloud saving are shown even though some still sync data with the in game account for example.