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Generic Troubleshooting Page


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#21 Mirh

Mirh


  • Posts: 796

Posted 07 November 2015 - 12:31 PM

Just to add a couple of other interesting oddities regarding crashes:

  • cables can make all the difference in some games
  • the same even for certain utilities or tweaks that injects their dlls into every process

EDIT: also checking windows events viewer.



#22 Mirh

Mirh


  • Posts: 796

Posted 03 July 2016 - 11:11 AM

Just a remainder that imo, Basic troubleshooting should just mention/link, in a specific order, the specific glossary pages to check.

Like Controller, Audio, Graphics, Directx, generally mentioning to check middleware table for dependencies..

 

Advanced troubleshooting should instead be about madmen stuff, like the aforementioned thing about cables and stupid dlls.

EDIT: or graphics card BIOS updates

EDIT2: oh, and I wasn't joking when I mentioned updating chipset in my first post

EDIT3: mentioning sfc /scannow as one of the really last things, too

EDIT4: uh, and then it's also pretty important to mention the noble practice of "system bisect". First try to disable with auto-start programs, then proceed with services (msconfig), last with drivers (like I mentioned here).

 

Spoiler



#23 Mirh

Mirh


  • Posts: 796

Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:09 PM

Ok, so, here we are at brainstorming (or mindfuck) board.

I'd replace basic troubleshooting with "good practices". This should then be divided into the three OSs.

Speaking of Windows the following should be included (some doesn't necessarily just apply to Windows, but still)

Spoiler
Other ideas are welcome.

 

Said this, actual generic troubleshooting page (the one linked in "issues fixed", everywhere) should be anything we'll decide to put here, PLUS another mention on the top "first make sure your computer is healthy", pointing to aforementioned good practices page.

 

Then, I think we could use an "hybrid approach" here. I hope this will make everyone happy.

A "division by topic" for starters, with stuff as shown there like Display, Input, Audio.. Performance then perhaps? Other "buzzwords" in noobs heads are welcome.

Spoiler

 

And then a BFB (where the last B means button) for "this doesn't even start, it crashes, OMG I DONT EVEN KNOW THE PROBLEM", which is what I think we may call advanced troubleshooting.

 

I propose to create a new Category "Errors:" made of redirects of "errors names" to the right page, so that we don't have to reinvent the whell every time, just for the most basic "missing msvcr120.dll" error. 

Once we cut this off, I think we are ready for seriously tough stuff. Like checking if there is some application/service/driver interfering, checking video cables, stress testing with Furmark/Prime95/memtest and other exoteric stuff.

Including, yes, the W10 --> W8.1 --> W8 --> W7 --> WVista rollercoaster (and hey, one day hopefully WXP too).

 

Thanks for reading.

Hoping a week of sea and sun will be able to make me forget all this malicious stuff d:



#24 Garrett

Garrett

Posted 06 August 2016 - 11:01 AM

Following an IRC discussion with Mirh and Soeb I have updated User:Garrett/Troubleshooting to have each OS page cover the applicable fixes for that version.
 
EDIT: As Mirh noted above, the most generic information would go under basic/advanced troubleshooting pages. Things like ensuring you have the latest drivers and OS updates applies to every platform. The OS-specific pages would then have just a very basic section (currently called "First steps") reinforcing the bare minimum of installing the latest updates.
 
Much of this content is mostly still written based on the reader already having an understanding of the topic. Descriptions should be longer and/or clearer as required. As always, feel free to edit/expand/etc. as needed.
 

I propose to create a new Category "Errors:" made of redirects of "errors names" to the right page, so that we don't have to reinvent the whell every time, just for the most basic "missing msvcr120.dll" error.

 
In that situation another possibility would be to have a template that provides the instructions directly, e.g. {{error|d3drm.dll}} turns into "download d3drm.dll and extract the DLL into the same folder as the game's main executable". This would be faster than linking to the troubleshooting page which is just going to direct the reader to that file anyway.

 

Including, yes, the W10 --> W8.1 --> W8 --> W7 --> WVista rollercoaster (and hey, one day hopefully WXP too).


The current implementation has the applicable fixes covered directly (as Soeb suggested) so there is no backtracking through the inheritance structure.

 

I started with Vista because it is the oldest version still supported by Microsoft and is the origin of most issues. I'm not opposed to a page for Windows XP if there really is interest in that.


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#25 Cptmold

Cptmold


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Posted 09 August 2016 - 12:46 AM

To add to what's here already, two fixes that have been of great use in the past to me:

 

BAD WINDOWS 10 UPGRADE PERFORMANCE​ (Multiple Games, e.g. Shadow of Mordor) - The Windows 10 Upgrade can really reduce performance.  Make use of the "Reset Your PC" option in Settings > Recovery or complete a Fresh Install to resolve this problem.  It will take a bit of time, though.  All your old programs will be under Windows.old, though I'd recommend backing up the actual data portions of this (e.g. saves that store themselves in the game directory, custom INIs, Steam\userdata, Steam\music) before doing it... just in case.  You should also back up Documents, Pictures, etc.

 

FIRST RESORT TO 'UNFIXABLE' BUGS (Example: Grim Fandango Remastered) - Restart your computer.  I'm dead serious.  It's stopped an unavoidable crash in the past for me, the most recent case being the end of the Sea of Despair in Grim Fandango Remastered.


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#26 Garrett

Garrett

Posted 10 August 2016 - 09:00 AM

Both those methods could go on the basic troubleshooting page. The refresh feature is not specific to Windows 10 (it was introduced in Windows 8).



#27 Blackbird

Blackbird


  • Posts: 225

Posted 10 August 2016 - 09:06 AM

Heh it's funny how many people skipped 8/8.1 that they missed all its features. (Though I am not surprised cause the UI was horrible)

#28 Marioysikax

Marioysikax

Posted 10 August 2016 - 04:22 PM

Both those methods could go on the basic troubleshooting page. The refresh feature is not specific to Windows 10 (it was introduced in Windows 8).

It's not, but I'm pretty sure that much more have done upgrade install to 10 (basically because it was partly forced) as opposed to 8.X. 

I have seen users having problems with 10 after upgrade install which have dissapeared when they have done clean install instead. And I have been recommending that to everyone upgrading to 10. 

 

Heh it's funny how many people skipped 8/8.1 that they missed all its features. (Though I am not surprised cause the UI was horrible)

Because 8 was literally horrible and 8.1 was so shitty naming that many just though it was 8. 



#29 Blackbird

Blackbird


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Posted 10 August 2016 - 10:06 PM

I used both and I agree. If it wasn't for 3rd party stuff to disable those dumb as hell hot corners and other touch nonsense I'd never use them.

yes I know offtopic



#30 Mirh

Mirh


  • Posts: 796

Posted 01 September 2016 - 01:42 PM

@Cptmold There are no unfixable bugs :*
 
Said this..

  • I see what we are saying here with admin rights, and I see what soeb have been saying. But the wording seems too.. redundant.
  • Mobile chips are feature complete with desktop since.. I think at least a decade. And anyway lacking opengl/directx support could cause crashes and all. But I wouldn't say if it's just for "slowness".
  • We should link quite improve how we mention driver updates. In that case I'd be wondering whether to link AMD/Intel/nvidia pages or GPU page instead of just directly the websites.. But then what about all the other drivers?
  • And basic troubleshooting is totally windows specific. As I said above, troubleshooting landing page should first handle that. And w10/8/7/vista pages should just be sub-mentioned in advanced troubleshooting.
  • Aside of this, I think Media Feature could just link to Windows page.
  • Noticing we have a specific physx entry.. I wonder if we couldn't automate the insertion of a fix in pages, once somebody writes the info in middleware table?
  • EDIT: and seeing how amd has crap dx12 dll, something for this too
  • Is it normal that I see no mention to some glossary pages like these, that would quite lower the clutter in the "hub" page?
  • Willy-nilly, whatever you think W10/8/7/vista pages should be meant to teach.. In their current state, especially the first one, are all but -quite- advanced.
  • And.. I don't think anybody really understood what basic really is.

Tentative structure

                                                                                                           ↗ Links (sound, controller, display..)
                                                  Linux...............      Windows basic troubleshooting** 
                                                ↗                         ↗                                ↘ Advanced troubleshooting
Troubleshooting landing page (with OS selection) → Windows good practices* 
                                                ↘                         ↘
                                                  OS X................      Cosy Windows[Vista/7/8/10]*** → Advanced windows
                                                                                              
Spoiler


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#31 Mirh

Mirh


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Posted 20 September 2016 - 05:59 PM

I was wondering.. where should "performance problems" fit?

Advanced troubleshooting or "links"?

 

I mean.. We have not so crazy issues like these, and then we have monstrous stuff like newer GPUs dropping analog and crappy adapters introducing input lag.

Uh, and casual stuff like stuttering caused by f.lux.



#32 Garrett

Garrett

Posted 21 September 2016 - 08:02 AM

That would depend on the complexity. Disabling processing methods like f.lux would be under basic since it's all about eliminating third-party interference. Other stuttering causes will be more about determining bottlenecks or choosing between driver versions, so that would be more of an advanced thing.


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#33 Garrett

Garrett

Posted 03 April 2017 - 04:58 AM

I have redesigned the introduction and navigation. Basic troubleshooting has been merged into the introduction page, and the first steps for each page are presented more prominently.

 

Pages for Windows Vista and Windows 8 are no longer included due to support ending for these versions (extended support ended last year for Windows 8 and will end for Windows Vista on April 11, 2017).

 

Anyway, see what you think.


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#34 Mirh

Mirh


  • Posts: 796

Posted 03 April 2017 - 10:24 PM

Wtf? Since when were we caring for official damns? :s

If any, the only criteria I'd see to hide something is popularity. But this only if space was really all that constraint.

 

For the remainder, wow, pretty nicely of a good page.

Do we have statistic for most searched fixes btw? xD

In hindsight, it's smart to already present there some.. flesh, I mean especially basic troubleshooting (which in your connotation is what I was imagining as "good practices")

And I was also going to critcizie you for duplication "install directx"... But yeah, you are totally right instead: unless they see the "error window" buzzword, some people will never really get it.

 

but aren't sound/controller/graphics pages a bit too much hidden?



#35 Garrett

Garrett

Posted 12 April 2017 - 09:08 AM

I have rebuilt the example as the Troubleshooting Hub. This separates issues by category instead of OS. The starting page includes some example problems to help guide the reader.
 

but aren't sound/controller/graphics pages a bit too much hidden?


Troubleshooting information from the glossary pages would be moved to the troubleshooting pages.


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#36 Hawaii Beach

Hawaii Beach

Posted 13 April 2017 - 09:45 AM

We should merge Garrett's pages with the offical ones, they are much more complete and are useful.






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