Add list of unreleased games in digital storefronts

[eltiorata 0]

Currently, there are lists of digital games which are no longer being sold in certain storefronts, but not a single list with games which can only be played legally through physical copies. A list like that would be especially useful to track abandonware titles.

[Aemony 142]

You mean something like this?

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_games_exclusive_to_retail_copies

The query to actually remove all games available on platforms -- especially historically -- fails so instead I only excluded games that has historically been on Steam as well. so it's not a 100% accurate list, but it's mostly accurate.

[Dandelion Sprout 13]

On analysis, I think the query failed because the page limit was set to 1,000. Changing it to 800 seems to make it work again.

I also figured that games that were on key-seller stores (i.e. Humble, Amazon, Gamesplanet, GamersGate) would be excluded from that list too, in contrast to what the case is on other exclusivity lists.

[eltiorata 0]

On 5/6/2022 at 11:52 PM, Aemony said:

You mean something like this?

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_games_exclusive_to_retail_copies

The query to actually remove all games available on platforms -- especially historically -- fails so instead I only excluded games that has historically been on Steam as well. so it's not a 100% accurate list, but it's mostly accurate.

Yeah I was thinking, just exclude every game which is already listed in the other lists of delisted games and let this list only have games which never received a digital release. So yeah, you got my point.

[Aemony 142]

On 5/7/2022 at 8:29 PM, Dandelion Sprout said:

On analysis, I think the query failed because the page limit was set to 1,000. Changing it to 800 seems to make it work again.

Different queries as historical releases (as in, unavailable nowadays) are stored in the separate "Available_from_historically" column, hence why I explicitly included a statement that excluded any games that has historically been available on Steam. Alongside your 800 limit change, you also removed that part of the query entirely which is why the current total count of the list (2560) is more than the original list I created (2457) -- the list inaccurately includes all retail releases that has historically been available on Steam but is now unavailable.

The full actual query that I didn't end up using is twice as long/complex as the current one, since it queries both columns of the table of each store, which adds immensely to the complexity.

I've re-added the whole thing again and reduced the limit further down to 500 in an attempt to alleviate the pressure on the backend, but we'll have to monitor and see how it handles it. If it at any point fails with the current queries, we'll have to remove all "Available_from_historically" except for the one that queries for a historical release on Steam as that alone accounts for the removal of 100 games from the list.

On a separate note I've removed Amazon US/UK and Gamesplanet from the queries as their role as a "key reseller" is naturally covers by existing statements already (whether that be Steam, xxx website, or otherwise). GamersGate and Humble Bundle is left included in the removal query as they have also acted as their own separate DRM-free distribution platform. Also added Battle.net to the query.

[Aemony 142]

This highlighted that we have a lot of articles where the Steam row has been removed due to being unavailable, while the retail row still lists Steam as the DRM used for the retail copy. Some day I need to set up a job that goes through all pages with a Steam App ID and restores/adds back any removed Steam row in the availability table, so that these lists becomes more accurate.

[Aemony 142]

This crazy query fails, so I guess we have to trim it after all... 😞

 

|where=
    Availability.Available_from              HOLDS     'Retail'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'GOG.com'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Microsoft Store'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Epic Games Store'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Ubisoft Store'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'EA Desktop'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Publisher website'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Official website'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Developer website'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'itch.io'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Bethesda.net'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Mac App Store'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Oculus Store'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Viveport'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Steam'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Humble Store'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Battle.net'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Zoom Platform'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'GamersGate'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'GOG.com'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Microsoft Store'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Epic Games Store'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Ubisoft Store'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'EA Desktop'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Publisher website'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Official website'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Developer website'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'itch.io'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Bethesda.net'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Mac App Store'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Oculus Store'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Viveport'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Steam'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Humble Store'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Battle.net'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Zoom Platform'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'GamersGate'

[Aemony 142]

This is the query as it stands now after I removed less common strorefronts that's least likely to have an impact on the results.

    Availability.Available_from              HOLDS     'Retail'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'GOG.com'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Microsoft Store'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Epic Games Store'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Ubisoft Store'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'EA Desktop'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Publisher website'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Official website'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Developer website'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'itch.io'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Bethesda.net'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Mac App Store'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Oculus Store'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Viveport'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Steam'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Humble Store'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Battle.net'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'Zoom Platform'
AND Availability.Available_from              HOLDS NOT 'GamersGate'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'GOG.com'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Microsoft Store'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Epic Games Store'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Ubisoft Store'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'EA Desktop'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Publisher website'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Official website'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Developer website'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Steam'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'Humble Store'
AND Availability.Available_from_historically HOLDS NOT 'GamersGate'

 

[Dandelion Sprout 13]

When comparing with other lists of delisted games:

• Ensuring that queries also exclude games that are delisted (instead of never-present) from other stores, sounds like something that'd be more suited to a hypothetical "Games that have always been exclusive to retail copies" list.
• "Available_from_historically" also includes all games in "Available_from", as per https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Special:Drilldown/Availability, which would make it possible to reduce the query criteria in the post above by around 40%.

 

[Aemony 142]

On 5/11/2022 at 9:40 AM, Dandelion Sprout said:

• Ensuring that queries also exclude games that are delisted (instead of never-present) from other stores, sounds like something that'd be more suited to a hypothetical "Games that have always been exclusive to retail copies" list.

I am not sure I follow? A query that excludes games that are delisted on digital platforms are exactly the same as those game never being present on said digital platforms to begin with. A list of games that includes retail copies that also might've been delisted from digital storefronts is a list of games that might have been, at one time or another, present on digital platforms.

> sounds like something that'd be more suited to a hypothetical "Games that have always been exclusive to retail copies" list.

That is what the list is for, and what the OP wanted. Having a list that only lists games _currently_ "exclusive" to retail copies serves no purpose, since without omitting games with digital copies there's no way to tell if the game actually has a retail standalone install, or if it's merely a key for a digital platform.

I also don't understand the purpose of "exclusivity" in the scenario you allude to -- lists of games based solely on "current exclusivity" has no real value since such games might still be obtainable on delisted platforms (through e.g. the aforementioned retail releases, key resellers, grey markets, etc), and it creates a weird overlap between our lists where a game can be "exclusive" to Steam and "delisted" from Epic at the same time, for example.

Honestly, I'd argue that those lists need to be adjusted to actually list the type of platform exclusivity that people actually care about -- permanent exclusivity and not temporary exclusivity.

Take List of games exclusive to ZOOM Platform as an example -- the page says "buyers will have no choice but to open an account for the storefront", but then it lists Pressure that both has a separate release through GamersGate and also an actual (delisted) Steam release (still available through key reseller). While new buyers of that game might require an account on the ZOOM Platform (well, not, since GamersGate + Steam), existing owners (who also bought the game once upon a time) absolutely does not.

As I said I don't think there's much value in that sort of temporary exclusivity -- all it tracks are games that cannot "easily" be bought through the main storefront of other platforms, but it says nothing about third-party resellers, existing keys, etc and therefor the "exclusivity" it tracks is a hollow one and a temporary one at best. It allows games to move between "exclusivity" lists freely based on how devs/pubs (de)list the games on different platforms, when the main desire from the gaming community for exclusivity lists is to see _actual_ exclusive titles that has never been released on another platform, ever.

---

I keep remembering my own situation with the Steam copy of Grand Theft Auto. That game had been "delisted" from Steam since 2013, and so "temporary exclusive" to retail copies since then, yet in 2019 I did a 2 minute googling and bought a Steam key for the "Grand Theft Auto Complete Pack" for like 5 bucks and lo and behold, I was an owner of it on Steam -- 6 years after it had been delisted. So much for being "exclusive" to "retail copies."

[Dandelion Sprout 13]

I for one am increasingly confused by at least some of your points too, since the lists are designed for people who plan to purchase the games. And to the best of my knowledge, key-only stores like G2A have never meant much to anything in PCGW's history, especially when you yesterday on Discord argued to stick to curated stores only.

• "(…) it lists Pressure that both has a separate release through GamersGate (…)"

I'll look into to which extent I can add DRM-free games from those storefronts as a part of the query on the storefront exclusivity lists. Give me 20min.

[Aemony 142]

On 5/16/2022 at 9:21 AM, Dandelion Sprout said:

since the lists are designed for people who plan to purchase the games

They aren't, though. They're lists meant to catalogue PC games of different types, in this case games permanently exclusive to a specific platform. Or as in the OP's case exclusive to physical release (having never had a digital release). A person planning on purchasing a game does not visit these lists that (currently, unless you've changed it) lists a bunch of temporarily exclusive available games on a certain platform -- they visit the actual page for the game itself and then just follows a link to where it's available.

Ergo it makes no sense to catalogue current temporary exclusivity on these lists when what everyone cares about is actual current permanent exclusivity.

When someone asks "What games are exclusive to Epic's platform?" they don't wonder which games have been delisted from Steam/Origin/Uplay and is currently only purchasable on Epic -- they wonder what games have always only been available on Epic.

 

On 5/16/2022 at 9:21 AM, Dandelion Sprout said:

And to the best of my knowledge, key-only stores like G2A have never meant much to anything in PCGW's history, especially when you yesterday on Discord argued to stick to curated stores only.

In these cases (speaking of all these "exclusivity lists") key resellers matters differently depending on the list. The "problem", if you will, is that some stores act in multiple capacities. Amazon US, for example, sells retail copies, digital keys for Steam and other platforms, as well as acts in their own digital distribution platform, which is why their handling in this specific list of games that only had a physical release is relevant.

Because by omitting excluding some of them in the query (meaning a game is listed that both has a retail release as well as an GamersGate release), we potentially include games that aren't exclusive to physical releases if said game have always been sold and distributed in a digital form through GamersGate, and so on.

This was also why I removed some stores from the query but left others included, as I attempted to balance all these three roles between one another (with a thought of how key resellers are already covered through other rows) to get an outcome that struck a somewhat good balance. After having re-evaluated the results, Amazon US in particular sticks out as they act as their own DRM-free digital distribution platform for a ton of small and tiny games that otherwise never sees releases on the "big platforms".

What I said on Discord isn't really relevant as that's an entirely different topic.

[Aemony 142]

The main difference of opinion here, I guess, is that we want and expect different things out of these lists, which colors how we view it and construct the queries.

• You want/expect the lists to include games that are currently only available for purchase on X platform.
• I want/expect the lists to include games that have ever only been available for purchase on X platform.

I honestly do not understand the purpose of the former -- at least not under the header of "List of games exclusive to X". When people talk of platform exclusivity they talk about permanent exclusivity -- not temporary exclusivity (aka current purchase exclusivity). It would make much more sense to have such lists called "List of games currently only available for purchase on ", as that way you ensure there's no confusion what the lists actually includes.

 

Edit: Sorry for the late reply, by the way. I am not sure why, but I do not get mail notifications when this thread sees a new reply despite following the content... 😐