"It is recommended to play the game with an Xbox 360 Controller"

[Guest]

Just a heads up that I've begun finished removing this statement, which appears to be always a key point, where it is not sourced and not backed up by the steam page or publisher pages, followed by the specific controller recommendations by the publisher/developer in the sysreqs. This particular phrasing is also only used by PCGamingWiki according to a google search.

 

It affects about 15 articles here.

 

ADDENDUM: For those who don't know: if a controller is a strong recommendation Steam will put it above the pricing on the Steam page.

[Blackbird 54]

Good job I always thought it's bit silly and someone's personal preference has no place here, but I disagree with this guy's dumb change. Just because it can be played on keyboard well doesn't mean shit.

The game even states controller is recommended right before main menu in a funny way.

Thoughts?

[Mirh 102]

Well, if a controller is a game changer, I can't see why an information point would be bad.

I mean, it wouldn't be bad if it was stated in racing and flying simulators.

 

There should be a hard proof for the claim though.

 

For example, sixth sense may suggest you Mirror's Edge is meant to be played with a controller

Subsequent time trials I did on the other hand showed keyboard and mouse were always a couple of seconds ahead.

 

Then back to topic question, 99.9% of times "x360 controller" just means XInput compatible, only in a more noob-proof way.

I'd still like editors to properly test DirectInput support then, before declaring support only for an API.

[Guest]

Good job I always thought it's bit silly and someone's personal preference has no place here, but I disagree with this guy's dumb change. Just because it can be played on keyboard well doesn't mean shit.

The game even states controller is recommended right before main menu in a funny way.

Thoughts?

Even in that case I'd say there should be a (ref) footnote about it ("recommends controller on game start" or something) so it can be verified. The Steam page itself states nothing of the sort, just a general statements of what controllers it supports - no recommendation. Really if the devs/pubs recommend a controller that much they should contact their steam rep to flag the game as such so it appears prominently on the steam page.

[Guest]

Then back to topic question, 99.9% of times "x360 controller" just means XInput compatible, only in a more noob-proof way.

I'd still like editors to properly test DirectInput support then, before declaring support only for an API.

Nowadays though... it's kind of misleading. Years ago it would have made since, but there are a variety of XInput-compatible controllers out there, and since DirectInput has been depreciated for years, naturally nearly every new controller has a XInput driver. Which kind of leads me to a question: do we have a centralized page for XInput? I searched the past few days and didn't find much other than a page with workarounds for the R2/L2 thing, but it was deeply buried in the search results. I'm assuming just an XInput page andhave a near-noob-proof statement to start it out.

 

Also, as a point: right now basically we state the API support under the controller support field as a note right? I'm not sure what the best practice is for that - either that or an ii above the table. Thanks for the testing link BTW.

[Blackbird 54]

Even in that case I'd say there should be a (ref) footnote about it ("recommends controller on game start" or something) so it can be verified. The Steam page itself states nothing of the sort, just a general statements of what controllers it supports - no recommendation. Really if the devs/pubs recommend a controller that much they should contact their steam rep to flag the game as such so it appears prominently on the steam page.

Good point, but referencing the image or the information itself? I predict if I add only the info someone will just change it again, because hurr durr I don't have the game.

[Mirh 102]

Nowadays though... it's kind of misleading. Years ago it would have made since, but there are a variety of XInput-compatible controllers out there, and since DirectInput has been depreciated for years, naturally nearly every new controller has a XInput driver.

Believe or not, there are still lots of controllers that are DirectInput. The first that comes to my mind are Dualshocks controllers.

Than, just think to the heap of joystick for flight simulators, where being limited by XInput hard cap is just out

 

Remember that XInput is just considered "actual" because it's the only API microsoft embed in their newer Windows SDKs (and I believe you'd need DirectX sdk or older to implement DI)

But aside of that, it's by no means superior.

 

Which kind of leads me to a question: do we have a centralized page for XInput? I searched the past few days and didn't find much other than a page with workarounds for the R2/L2 thing, but it was deeply buried in the search results. I'm assuming just an XInput page andhave a near-noob-proof statement to start it out.

I guess you are referring to my post on the talk page of "Controller".

Still, what would you write in this XInput specific page?

 

Also, as a point: right now basically we state the API support under the controller support field as a note right? I'm not sure what the best practice is for that - either that or an ii above the table. Thanks for the testing link BTW.

Personally, I believe it's too hidden down there.

I mean.. how many people know they need special workarounds to play Xinput games with DI controllers (x360ce) or viceversa (L2/R2 thing and vibrations)?

[Blackbird 54]

It doesn't matter what is superior. What matters is what's common. Windows/D3D is more common therefore more devs use it which in turn means more users use it. Also DInput FF is horrible mess.

Not to mention flight/racing sims are niche at best.

[Marioysikax 89]

...and since DirectInput has been depreciated for years, naturally nearly every new controller has a XInput driver. Which kind of leads me to a question: do we have a centralized page for XInput? I searched the past few days and didn't find much other than a page with workarounds for the R2/L2 thing, but it was deeply buried in the search results. I'm assuming just an XInput page andhave a near-noob-proof statement to start it out.

 

Also, as a point: right now basically we state the API support under the controller support field as a note right? I'm not sure what the best practice is for that - either that or an ii above the table. Thanks for the testing link BTW.

After Dualshock 4 got released, more and more games are supporting it directly and adding support for generic DirectInput as well. Even if it's depreciated it's still alive and kicking. Actually looking at XInput limitations compared to DirectInput, it's impossible for XInput controller to have any more or less buttons than regular 360 controller and windows always states the controller as 360 controller despite the model. So I would say simply use 360 controller article for XInput related stuff, then link to it from third party XInput controllets. 

 

I was unsure where to put the info about API, after I put it into API tables input field, someone corrected me to put it into input sections controller note. 

 

When I put up "controller recommended" key note, I always explain the stuff in Input section of the page and link to it. One really good example is Fairy Bloom Freesia article, which states obvious things and then it's up to user do they want to use controller or not. Game only showing controller button prompts isn't good enough reason and I always put it as negative point in input section. 

[Mirh 102]

Windows/D3D is more common therefore more devs use it which in turn means more users use it.

Implying DirectInput is not DirectX?

Perhaps in newer games it's a bit less supported than XInput, but if we look to all games as a whole, I believe it's still the most used API

 

Also DInput FF is horrible mess.

Didn't... had we already discussed this? Or something like that?

Anyway, I guess there's no actual standard... but it doesn't mean somebody couldn't explain all these things (us?)

 

Not to mention flight/racing sims are niche at best.

This is not really a point..

[Blackbird 54]

DInput dates back to DX8 so it's pretty much uncommon and mostly dead. Sony did a bad thing by making DS4 DInput only. Shows how much out of touch they are sadly.

Yes we did and I still disagree it's useful for anything, but niche input devices.

So what is the point? Why bother mentioning DInput when barely any users need it unless they cling to their ancient controllers for no reason. DS4 users will use XInput wrapper anyway unless they want to play only few games that support it natively.

 

If you mean in relation to XInput controllers playing DInput only games properly then I'd agree, but not the other way around. X360CE exists for reason and if someone wants to handicap himself with old DInput controller then he probably knows about it already. Same as dolts that still use XP.

 

OR

 

If you mean in relation which game supports what then I agree that it's annoying that you can't tell, but seems like too much work to tag everything.

[Guest]

It's a technology, we can't just get rid of it and ignore it's existence. But honestly this whole DInput/XInput thing is really confusing to me so I'm not sure, I might be wrong anyway.

 

I don't know too much on the topic at hand so, meh, don't take what I said too seriously.

 

On topic, I use a more generic keypoint when a game should be played with a controller. Maybe I could re-write this so that it points out those M/K issues only instead.

http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Binary_Domain

 

I don't like the way it's worded on this page though but whatever.

[Blackbird 54]

Yeah games that have bad/mediocre M/KB support should have those notes such as Dark Souls and MGR. Platformers should have it too if specified by dev such as SMB.

 

I didn't say to ignore it at all. Just that mirh is deluded if he thinks DInput controllers are majority if we discount DS4 users that use XInput wrapper anyway.

DS4 support will sadly never get more widespread since there is some legal sillyness with the face buttons likeness that is preventing them to be used. So only minority of devs will support it fully and not only as another DInput controller :(

[Guest]

Yeah games that have bad/mediocre M/KB support should have those notes such as Dark Souls and MGR. Platformers should have it too if specified by dev such as SMB.

 

I didn't say to ignore it at all. Just that mirh is deluded if he thinks DInput controllers are majority if we discount DS4 users that use XInput wrapper anyway.

DS4 support will sadly never get more widespread since there is some legal sillyness with the face buttons likeness that is preventing them to be used. So only minority of devs will support it fully and not only as another DInput controller :(

Ah, sorry, I misread. I really wish more games had PlayStation prompts, they feel way more natural to me than the Xbox 360 ones.

[Blackbird 54]

No worries I'm just bit annoyed is all. I mean we don't have mentions about 4:3/5:4 monitors too for good reason since WS and even 21:9 is lot more common and important to more users.

If there won't be some simple table or something to add this easily then it's only going to add more useless keypoints that affect minority of users. That or adding more info to Glossary:Controller and [[DInput]] could lead to something like Glossary:Controller#DInput that would explain it in more detail and how to play the games closer to native on XInput controllers. As of now it's bit confusing since Xpadder/Joy2Key aren't even mentioned as a way to overcome XInput>DInput controls.

I mean AA already works pretty good that way. So does Glossary:Sound mirh put so much work into.