PLP Support: How to integrate per game?

[Glitchabit 4]

Hi. I will shortly be contributing PLP gaming support data to pcgamingwiki. Before I start, I need some direction.

The first objective is to add PLP instructions per-game. I also hope to include a PLP screenshot, if this is allowed. (Screenshots are proof of function & visual outcome. And they're cool)

Where text goes:

My first guess is that PLP instructions go in "Video settings, Multi-monitor" cell. But the space needed is large (see example in #3 below), is it OK there? The PLP instructions are anywhere from a sentence to a short paragraph.

 

Where image goes:

??? The screenshots are pretty wide at ~16:5. Are they unsuited to this site? I have easy access to these sizes for each image. (I could make different size. I also have not checked into hosting images here yet, may be needed. Images with bezel effect preferred, but I have stock if not acceptable.)

~320 × 101 (bit small to understand image. But it works alright, especially as link to bigger.)

~640 × 202

~800 × 252

~1024 × 322

~1280 × 403

~3520 × 1080

Any advice welcome, or do an example if you prefer. Thanks. Here are related links:

1. PLP source wiki, some of which will integrate into pcgamingwiki.
http://plp-gaming.wikia.com/wiki/PLP_Gaming_Wiki

2. PLP Games List is current objective to integrate. (super-page with game years & guidelines. Game lists are WIP, added to regularly.)
http://plp-gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Manual_PLP_Games_List

3. Entry #1 to be integrated (instructions & screenshot)
http://plp-gaming.wikia.com/wiki/2014_Manual_PLP_Games#Alien:_Isolation

- #1 screenshot sizes easily available:

http://plp-gaming.wikia.com/wiki/File:Alien_Isolation_2014.jpg

- #1 pcgamingwiki page needing edit.

http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Alien:_Isolation

[Garrett 214]

PLP would be listed under multi-monitor; if the description is longer a section is used below video settings with a link from the notes (e.g. Fallout: New Vegas). PLP behaviour tends to be similar to regular LLL multi-monitor so often wouldn't need to be specifically mentioned unless the result differs.

 

This wiki is currently linking to WSGF for aspect behaviour screenshots rather than providing them directly so I'd suggest that you continue submitting PLP screenshots there.

[Glitchabit 4]

Thanks for response Garrett. First to clarify problems:

1. PLP procedure is usually completely different than LLL. This is because LLL has Eyefinity fullscreen support, PLP does not yet. PLP therefore requires a different method to achieve it. Current technical atmosphere usually requires the spreading of windows, using software & often edits (where LLL fullscreen would just work). This is why specific instructions are needed, per game, to show how game can support PLP. Without Eyefinity/Surround.

 

2. The problems with WSGF:

- Many working PLP games are not listed on WSGF. It is nowhere near as complete as the source PLP Gaming wiki.

- WSGF is not well-suited for PLP details. It is hampering, blocking many game inclusions, & requiring details that are irrelevant for PLP (details I don't have), before games can be included.

- When game exists on WSGF, PLP screenshots are hidden in Additional Screenshots section. They are not with main Screenshots, & do not appear without digging into the DR.

 

So I was hoping pcgamingwiki would be a more suitable location for PLP details. pcgamingwiki does not appear to hamper, having a more flexible interface & more existing game pages available for edit.

 

Questions:

- Appropriate?

I was told that pcgamingwiki was an appropriate place to put PLP details. Would you agree with this, or not? (this from email response received when I first contacted pcgamingwiki, asking if it was appropriate. He said yes & sent me here.)

- Screenshots:

You are saying that screenshots should not be used on pcgamingwiki, correct? And not be linked to, correct? Or are you saying I should link to WSGF page with hidden screenshot (when it exists)? Basically I don't understand how this is useful, as screenshots will not be seen if they are not shown on pcgamingwiki. Please clarify what you think appropriate.

- Instructions:

Will need a title like "PLP Support," or no-one will know what they are for. Instructions are PLP-specific, not relating to common LLL multi-monitor setups. Would this equate to PLP always being in its own section? (e.g. on Fallout: New Vegas, would read "See PLP Support" in Multi-monitor cell, which links to a new section below named "PLP Support" where details are listed.) Or is there a preferred solution?

- Requirements:

There are system requirements before PLP instructions will work. Should this be mentioned per-game? (For example on WSGF stating, "Good PLP monitor combination required. Instructions obsolete upon Eyefinity PLP support"). Or should there be a link to requirements (a "PLP Setup" type page here, not yet in existence). Something like this section on PLP Gaming:

http://plp-gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Good_PLP_Monitor_Setups

 

Thanks again for your help

[Guest]

He clearly said that WSGF should be used for PLP related screenshots, if not then you could have the PLP wiki host those screenshots on their own pages instead I presume, I guess this could be a possible solution.

[Garrett 214]

- WSGF is not well-suited for PLP details. It is hampering, blocking many game inclusions, & requiring details that are irrelevant for PLP (details I don't have), before games can be included.

- When game exists on WSGF, PLP screenshots are hidden in Additional Screenshots section. They are not with main Screenshots, & do not appear without digging into the DR.

 

WSGF entries don't have to have all details supplied in order to be submitted or updated. Omitting certain details will result in an Incomplete grade for that screen type but will otherwise work as expected.

 

I realise that WSGF isn't an ideal solution in the case of PLP screenshots but this wiki has so far left behaviour screenshots up to WSGF.

 

- Instructions:

Will need a title like "PLP Support," or no-one will know what they are for. Instructions are PLP-specific, not relating to common LLL multi-monitor setups. Would this equate to PLP always being in its own section? (e.g. on Fallout: New Vegas, would read "See PLP Support" in Multi-monitor cell, which links to a new section below named "PLP Support" where details are listed.) Or is there a preferred solution?

 

Instructions go under the overall section name for that feature type. PLP-specific fixes (if any) can be indicated with a note and/or the fixbox description. If PLP behaviour is the same as other multi-monitor layouts it could be noted in passing (e.g. "also works for PLP layouts").

 

- Requirements:

There are system requirements before PLP instructions will work. Should this be mentioned per-game? (For example on WSGF stating, "Good PLP monitor combination required. Instructions obsolete upon Eyefinity PLP support"). Or should there be a link to requirements (a "PLP Setup" type page here, not yet in existence). Something like this section on PLP Gaming:

http://plp-gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Good_PLP_Monitor_Setups

 

There is currently a very basic Glossary:Multi-monitor entry which could be expanded with some basic explanation for the common layouts and how to achieve them since there is some overlap in the methods that work for each layout.

[Glitchabit 4]

Alright, think I am clear now. The game instructions are what matter most, & they are acceptable for use here. These only I will add to pcgamingwiki. Requirements & screenshots (or links to them) will not exist here. It is not really enough detail for a newb, but it is enough for a PLP gamer. I understand your reasoning, PLP should not be prioritized here purely so it is accessible.

 

I do not add new DRs on WSGF when all I have is PLP instructions & image. It is an inappropriate game entry creation, so empty it would annoy. A stub with hidden PLP information, when people primarily use WSGF for LLL support. So PLP data will be bit broken & incomplete on WSGF & pcgamingwiki, in different ways.

 

But it is still an excellent start. I'm greatful for the opportunity to share, as PLP is not well understood & lacks visible online support.

 

I will start updating games here in a week or so (testing catch-up ATM)

[Andytizer 269]

Many thanks Glitchabit.

[Andytizer 269]

Just gonna move this thread into the appropriate forum (Development).

[Mirh 103]

I don't think WSGF admins would be so short sighted.. when they started the website 16:9 was mindblowing.

But nowadays even (normal) multimonitor is almost become a commonplace...
So PLP seems like the only big natural continuation of their projects

Said this, you should just think that there are dumbs out there that find already difficult to update directX....
I won't talk for the entire wiki, but at least for me, that's the target I always try to suit when I wrote pages.

Now, I wasted nearly a month looking for patches of games of the 90's, so if that could even have a remote value, PLP is the new call of duty in comparison.
Though I (we?) usually try to streamline as much as possible, after all 99% just want to play the damn game.
Explanations or technicalities are often omitted and/or linked, for example in the references (they would be welcome on a more experts-oritened website such as WSGF btw)

Anyway the aforementioned multi-monitor page is the perfect page to write common instructions to setup PLP.

Are there lots of specific tweaks to setup for every different game or is it always the same more or less to learn?

 

And could PLP instructions (with methods such as ShiftWindow, that I usually read in your wikia) be considered as universal multimonitor methods?

I mean, if eyefinity and surround didn't exist, would they work seamlessly with plain LLL?

[Glitchabit 4]

Thanks for your interest Mirh. The PLP instructions will work for most abnormally large setups (PLP, LLL, PPP, 21:9, & screens with massive pixel-counts. But NOT LLL mixed resolution so much. This latter will often require Eyefinity to ignore user's poor pixel line-up). But PLP instructions are not useful/relevant for these other setups (in most cases), as they are supported through Eyefinity/Surround. No-one in their right mind would fight their own battle to spread a game, if Eyefinity does it for them. (There are of course exceptions. E.g. a game that does not support 21:9 or massive pixel-count screen could be bypassed with PLP instructions to achieve full spread.)

In the current technical atmosphere, about 1/2 the games I test do NOT spread without Eyefinity/Surround (with Eyefinity common LLL, about 3/4 would work). Both these averages are improving over time. Game engines & screen tools are becoming more flexible as time passes. (E.g. There will be another leap forward in flexibility, come early 2015. I can't wait to test it.)

So over time, more success without Eyefinity/Surround. And eventually, Eyefinity will be more flexible, supporting more setup variations (e.g. mixed resolution is the latest big step forward). It is just a matter of time before PLP is properly supported. PLP is the worst, most complex case. When it is supported, all screen variations will be on equal ground.

Varied solutions are used to achieve PLP, depending on game's specific engine. If one does not consider the game's engine, there is great variation per-game. In-house engines always require a different solution. But one engine used in multiple games commonly uses the same (or very similar) solution. (e.g. Unity engine is very friendly with ShiftWindow.) Currently ShiftWindow is commonly part of the PLP solutions (spreading until borderless), because windowed is commonly required to spread games without Eyefinity in current atmosphere. And SoftTH (fullscreen) does not yet support most current games. With the advent of SoftTH v3 "plus" (will support DX10 & DX11), this latter used in fullscreen may become the most common solution. Here is the page describing in detail the methods commonly combined to achieve PLP. Certain tools with promising future are highlighted, most notably SoftTH v3 "plus":
http://plp-gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Manual_PLP:_How_To_Spread_Games

And here is page showing common game engines & their test stats. They each use similar solutions for their group of games. (WIP, multiple engines not yet tested. Also Unreal Engine will likely have a good solution shortly.)
http://plp-gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Manual_PLP:_Game_Engines_Support

As for updating the pcgamingwiki Multi-monitor page, I felt PLP-specific guidance was not desired here (based on Garrett's last post, which I do understand). And I would not know how to write a page that was multi-screen generic (not PLP-specific). There is much detail, much of which is PLP-specific due to portrait sides, shape, & lack of Eyefinity support combined with PPI constraints. You would ideally have a page for each different setup type, written by someone knowledgeable in that specific setup. But then there is certainly some overlap, & I have no idea how to write for this. Very complex to mesh details together on a "multi-monitor" super-page, deciding what details are common & what details should be on its own page. Overall, this meshing job feels beyond my ability to verbalise.

As for your bracketed comment, putting PLP setup details on WSGF & linking to them here: I was not given permission to do so on WSGF. Though it may be that I did not ask clearly. Are you suggesting I request their inclusion somewhere on WSGF, & link to them here in some way?

I am again unclear :). I will not edit anything for time being.

[Garrett 214]

As for updating the pcgamingwiki Multi-monitor page, I felt PLP-specific guidance was not desired here (based on Garrett's last post, which I do understand). And I would not know how to write a page that was multi-screen generic (not PLP-specific). There is much detail, much of which is PLP-specific due to portrait sides, shape, & lack of Eyefinity support combined with PPI constraints. You would ideally have a page for each different setup type, written by someone knowledgeable in that specific setup. But then there is certainly some overlap, & I have no idea how to write for this. Very complex to mesh details together on a "multi-monitor" super-page, deciding what details are common & what details should be on its own page. Overall, this meshing job feels beyond my ability to verbalise.

 

There is certainly no requirement to use a single page to cover a topic; most pages are like this simply because there hasn't been that much written yet. Those familiar with other types of multi-monitor layouts can always split/merge the more widely applicable information afterwards.

 

 

As for your bracketed comment, putting PLP setup details on WSGF & linking to them here: I was not given permission to do so on WSGF. Though it may be that I did not ask clearly. Are you suggesting I request their inclusion somewhere on WSGF, & link to them here in some way?

 

From what I've seen you've already been contributing details to WSGF. I don't really know how popular PLP is; it could be that WSGF would be willing to support the inclusion of PLP as one of the rotating screenshot types (like how 16:9 and 16:10 are rated together but still get distinct screenshots for the rotating comparison).

[Mirh 103]

Thanks for your interest Mirh. The PLP instructions will work for most abnormally large setups (PLP, LLL, PPP, 21:9, & screens with massive pixel-counts. But NOT LLL mixed resolution so much. This latter will often require Eyefinity to ignore user's poor pixel line-up). But PLP instructions are not useful/relevant for these other setups (in most cases), as they are supported through Eyefinity/Surround. No-one in their right mind would fight their own battle to spread a game, if Eyefinity does it for them. (There are of course exceptions. E.g. a game that does not support 21:9 or massive pixel-count screen could be bypassed with PLP instructions to achieve full spread.)

 

As for updating the pcgamingwiki Multi-monitor page, I felt PLP-specific guidance was not desired here (based on Garrett's last post, which I do understand). And I would not know how to write a page that was multi-screen generic (not PLP-specific). There is much detail, much of which is PLP-specific due to portrait sides, shape, & lack of Eyefinity support combined with PPI constraints. You would ideally have a page for each different setup type, written by someone knowledgeable in that specific setup. But then there is certainly some overlap, & I have no idea how to write for this. Very complex to mesh details together on a "multi-monitor" super-page, deciding what details are common & what details should be on its own page. Overall, this meshing job feels beyond my ability to verbalise.

Afaik garret just pointed out we are not the best place to show screenshots.

Multimonitor page may seem skinny by design, but it's just that nobody ever really cared.

 

It would be a pleasure to bring it to the highest standards. First, of course, we should feature noob-proof methods like eyefinity/surround... but then you would have all the space you'd need to talk of manual methods [example (more messy example)]

 

Then if PLP has further complications, you may take a cue from the solution I used with L4D splitscreen. Notice how getting it to work is already hard, but it's even more horrific if you'd need to play with mouse+keyboard and something that's not 4:3 or 16:9.

 

And cmon, if I could write something that mindblowing (seriously) why you shouldn't? d:

 

This way, when you are writing per-game specific solutions, you could just mention the working general case/method (along with the other little adjustments needed)

And we have Engine: pages too. If solution is so common you might even want to write it there (I love streamlining game articles, if it hadn't been understood)

 

As for your bracketed comment, putting PLP setup details on WSGF & linking to them here: I was not given permission to do so on WSGF. Though it may be that I did not ask clearly. Are you suggesting I request their inclusion somewhere on WSGF, & link to them here in some way?

Well, my consideration is this: they are even promoting fancy 21:9 monitors.

Could they ever be more common than PLP? I mean.. I have tons of old monitors that I don't use... and so I believe the majority of people.

Using them to squeeze more pixels in my view isn't so wacky

[Glitchabit 4]

My head is so deeply into PLP, that I have perhaps been viewing all this backwards. Mirh you are dead on (as was Garrett). I am simply using manual methods to spread games, period. For any screen format. Because no big graphics company is helping me basically. (I have become annoyed with them.) ShiftWindow is a tool that is somewhat effective currently, and shortly SoftTH will again become an effective tool. Though not certain SoftTH is a manual method, it is more of an Eyefinity replacement...(?). Whereas ShiftWindow implies more significant user meddling. In the end it is all Eyefinity replacement. Anyway, come 2015 these 2 tools together will mean that all weird resolutions will be quite well supported. 2 good solutions, when one fails there is yet the other. PLP will then work as often as LLL, just bit more work (will still require testing per-game & fairly often edits).

 

As for writing... to be honest I am a gamer who tests. I am probably trying to make excuses not to write. But it does need doing, somewhere visible. I may be up to the task, or part of it. At the moment my head is in games, but will review your examples shortly. I do have interest in your streamlined engine-based instruction. Though it won't work throughout, as same-engine games still vary a bit.

 

I am glad to have found people of similar mind. Who see the value in.... whatever you would call what I'm doing. ...I want proper support for PLP, for me & the planet. I consider it the best overall format for PC. And I feel there is real interest out there, other gamers who like using it, or that want it for its strengths but don't know how. In the absence of professional support, there is a need for SOME form of PLP support. If this means I must wrack my brain & write more I will. If it means I must call it Manual or write other stuff I don't much care about, whatever. I am a practical PLP enthusiast.

 

As for WSGF, Skip said clearly no PLP screenshots in main area YET. And pretty sure also did not want PLP-specific write-ups, pretty sure he suggested pcgamingwiki for this (you could ask him if interest, I will not likely bring it up again). It was felt to not fit there I think. In any case, I am very content with the basement. Game instructions are visible on google searches, which means PLP gamers are still supported (when the DR exists).

 

BTW I am continually testing games & engines, for near future at least. Latest discovery: Hammer Engine (Targem Games in-house engine) is a real contender. Good chance engine is flexible throughout their games (using windowed & edits)

[Glitchabit 4]

Eyefinity PLP support is finally here. This changes everything. My game instructions are obsolete, just buy a new video card.

http://www.wsgf.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=27759&view=print

http://videocardz.com/54128/amd-announces-catalyst-omega-drivers-with-virtual-super-resolution

 

Card Review

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-r9-285-tonga,3925.html

[Mirh 103]

Eyefinity PLP support is finally here. This changes everything. My game instructions are obsolete, just buy a new video card.

http://www.wsgf.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=27759&view=print

http://videocardz.com/54128/amd-announces-catalyst-omega-drivers-with-virtual-super-resolution

 

Card Review

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-r9-285-tonga,3925.html

This is just for AMD though..

I wouldn't mind, still, universal solutions (driver-agnostic) that could work with every card (be it intel, nvidia or whatever)

 

EDIT: or even AMD cards that aren't supported by these drivers (like 4000 series)