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Posts posted by Garrett

  1. Installation is failing because the actual SETUP.EXE used to install the game is 16-bit (which won't work on a 64-bit version of Windows).

    Make a copy of the complete CD contents somewhere, and extract the InstallShield 3 32-bit Generic Installer into the SETUP\ENGLISH folder there. Run setup32.exe and follow the steps. You should be able to install the game normally.

    This sort of workaround will also work for other games using a 16-bit version of InstallShield, but you might need a different version of the replacement installer (InstallShield 2InstallShield 3InstallShield 5). You can find out what version you need by going to the Properties for SETUP.EXE (or similar) and noting the file version listed there.

    For MDK you won't need your temporary installer folder (the game will load things from the CD as usual), so you can simply delete it, but some other games might actually point configuration files etc. to the specific path it was installed from. In those cases you could simply make a semi-permanent place to store your fixed installer folder while you're playing that game, or correct whatever config file is looking there.

  2. There wasn't really a strict distinction of what sort of platforms would and wouldn't be covered back when the wiki was started. Windows/OS X/Linux were there, of course, and the inclusion of classic Macintosh and DOS/PC booter games came about naturally, in part because those are part of the modern system lineage to some degree (you can't necessarily run them on the newest systems today, but there is or was support for running that legacy software on the modern successor OS at some point along the way).

    I've tried to distinguish classic Mac OS from OS X where possible while editing (this isn't made easy by sources like MobyGames treating this as an unbroken lineage). I don't know enough about the classic Macintosh era to say whether a singular classic division is sufficient or even correct.

    Defining what a PC 'is' might be a bit broad; if you would like to see a particular system added I'd suggest making a topic for discussing that individual case.

    Streaming services are probably never going to be covered (except as an aside on pages for games with normal versions) because you're not actually playing it on your PC in the traditional sense, you're just using your PC to send commands and view the resulting output (identical to using that streaming service on your TV, phone, tablet, etc.)


    On 6/4/2021 at 2:50 AM, Aemony said:

    This is actually why I recommended Andy to set up AppleGamingWiki as a separate wiki from PCGW, because if PCGW started to cover sideloaded iOS/iPadOS games running on macOS then it wouldn't make sense to not cover Android games either as they can equally be able to run on PCs through the use of emulators or such [...]

    Some clarification in this area will inevitably be required in the near future with Android apps coming to Windows 11 through the Microsoft Store (these apps will run directly and function just as you'd expect a real native app would)--especially if there end up being weird cases where there is (or was) both a native version for some OS and also the Android version in the store.

  3. It would probably make more sense to tag this on just the file rather than the past, e.g.:


    This would mean the result would be other other way around out of necessity:


    This would also make it possible to tag files when mentioned individually, e.g. for games where there is a breakdown below the table for what each file does.

  4. I drafted an accessibility template a while back which included a save system section, but at the time I hadn't considered handling permadeath, respawning, etc.

    One option would be to have fields that support keywords, similar to the infobox taxonomy, so that multiple options can be specified to accommodate games where multiple possibilities apply (e.g. Minecraft optionally supports permadeath).

    What happens when the character dies or you trigger a failure state in a mandatory task required to progress the story (the enemies destroy the base, a critical NPC gets killed, etc.)

    • Reload - you can only roll back to the last save/checkpoint, no progress is retained (other than maybe some meta thing like achievements)
    • Respawn - infinite lives: games like Minecraft - death/failure jumps you back to the last rest point etc. as often as needed and retains at least some form of progress (unlike rolling back to a checkpoint)
    • Respawn - limited lives: as above but you can only try again if you have lives (or equivalent) remaining, after that it's game over
    • Permadeath - dying means game over (in some games this might unlock additional characters etc. for the next run, but that particular run is over)

    Save system:
    How you can save the game

    • Continual save - games like Minecraft (everything you do is constantly saved with no player input)
    • Autosave - game progress is saved automatically (based on some criteria specific to the game)
    • Save anywhere - you can do a manual save whenever you like
    • Save anywhere (outside combat) - games like Mass Effect where you can save anywhere as long as you are not actively in combat
    • Password - games that save through a password that must be entered to return to that point
    • None - games that can't be saved at all (you have to finish the game in a single run)
    • N/A - games where the concept of saving does not apply (e.g. multiplayer-only games where everything is retained online)

    There should maybe be some way of identifying whether you get save slots (so many games now have a single save per character or whatever with no way of going backwards to an earlier state).

    Anyway, see what you think.

  5. When you combine existing OS drives like that, your system will start with whichever drive is set to boot first in the UEFI/BIOS settings. You'll then see the other OS drive and you can move over whatever files you want (you'll need to "take ownership" to get to files inside your old user profile).

  6. Install folder is not particularly useful. If it's a retail or DRM-free game you most likely got a choice of where to install/extract it to, and if it's a digital game there is an easy UI option in that store's client for jumping right to the install folder. The install path also varies greatly between stores.

    As for your captures, if you really can't find that you could use Everything (or the Windows search in a pinch) to track down wherever it got saved to.

  7. On 5/7/2020 at 9:41 PM, Andytizer said:

    However as a 'normal user' I think I'd be confused by the term Red Book, it would be better IMO to use a generic term CD audio with Red Book in the tooltip or in brackets. 

    Games referred to this as "Red Book" quite a lot back in the day, often using both terms interchangeably (some like Descent II actually call it Red Book most of the time). The template text has both terms, so even if a reader has never heard of Red Book its meaning can be easily inferred (and is then confirmed by the tooltip).

    Putting this term in the template will hopefully also reduce situations where this is set incorrectly (e.g. for games that stream audio files from the CD rather than playing actual tracks).

    Based on a few test searches, internet search engines do not appear to know that Red Book is another term for CD audio in the context of gaming (search results are completely different unless pages happen to mention both terms), so search keyword accessibility is another strong reason for putting both terms in the displayed text.

    11 hours ago, Mirh said:

    Then I guess like you might be right, that just using winmm is not enough for CD-DA support (even though I wonder why just about all the fixes I have seen relied on a patched _inmm.dll). Wait. But that's actually what you care for?

    That's what's broken in new windows. What else is there? If you were directly reading yourself the CD like a music player, then nothing should change on your side.

    As I said there are implementations that don't use APIs at all, so handling this with an API focus would inevitably involve ambiguity (which can already occur with some parts of the API table, e.g. being able to set "OpenGL versions" to unknown) and therefore should be avoided when less ambiguous options are also available.

  8. Going by the documentation, $wgPageImagesLeadSectionOnly should be enabled to ensure only images above the first section (in this case Availability) will be considered. It might also be necessary to change the resolution values to ensure any valid image will qualify (the extension page is a bit vague regarding the non-Wikimedia default values).

    A ParserFunction-style way of tagging the exact image to use would still be preferable to trusting any sort of algorithm, but with a bit of tinkering this should work reliably for at least game pages and probably the company and engine pages as well.

    7 minutes ago, Aemony said:

    I don’t see why we shouldn’t try it out. I never did understand why we used a custom extension when there were multiple ones available.

    But perhaps it was a different time back in the day.

    The PageImages extension added OpenGraph support in MediaWiki 1.29, so this feature probably didn't exist at that time.

  9. I have renamed Video, Input, and Audio and updated the documentation etc. where applicable. Existing links to the old section names within and between pages will continue working normally.

    I have not changed VR support at this time; it is probably due for an overhaul anyway to clear up/split stereoscopic 3D vs actual VR headsets (but that's a separate topic).

    Note that I have not renamed the Cargo tables at this time because there are some other things to change or finalise there as well such as the CD audio row. Cargo table naming doesn't have to match the actual template name and is mostly invisible, so this isn't a big deal.

    11 hours ago, Mirh said:

    Video/audio/input "and nothing" seems just so anonymous.

    I don't even mind "settings" to stick then to be honest, but at least if you have to remove it have something like "features" in its place.

    Using the term without any additional words brings it into line with other sections like Availability and Network (with VR support being the exception as I mentioned above). "Features" would also not be the most applicable term for some of the rows (e.g. "touchscreen optimized").

    11 hours ago, Mirh said:

    Putting even aside that I don't think stuff like AO, bloom and illumination should go in video settings... or at least not without some unholy revamp.

    Video settings is almost too long already, so it would make more sense to introduce an additional table for less universal features rather than bloating the main one. Some time ago I made a working example of this. This is definitely something to revisit (in a separate topic), particularly with things like ray tracing becoming more common in the near future.

  10. On 5/8/2020 at 1:10 AM, Mirh said:

    Mhh.. I like this automatism, but for some reason having it in the audio settings doesn't really "check" in my mind.

    Yes, of course it is audio-related, but it so much out of tune with the "semantic area" of the other rows.


    Perhaps, is there the possibility this could be pegged to the use of a specific API?

    There was a previous discussion about removing "settings" from the headings. Some of the templates already have information which is a feature rather than an actual setting (e.g. input settings has "Steam Input API support"), so a row for CD audio would not be the first case like that.

    Listing it under API would lead to implementation problems and some vague/incorrect data. There is no such thing as an API for this under DOS, for instance, and even under Windows some games might have chosen to read the data with some built-in method for whatever reason rather than relying on the OS. There is also the problem of what an unknown state would mean (does this mean it's not known whether the game uses CD audio at all, or it definitely does but it's just not known how it is handled?)

  11. 54 minutes ago, Aemony said:

    An acceptable workaround for skip intros specifically that I can imagine might be doable is to move the larger such sections that includes more than one alternative down to “Other information“ while retaining a link to said section in the “Essential improvements” section. This would solve huge sections while still allowing new users and regular users to easily identify whether such an option is available or not regardless of whether multiple alternatives are available or not.

    From time to time I've thought about the possibility of having some form of a quick visual overview of a handful of the most common features that would then link to those sections, perhaps something like how the old GOG.com browser extension worked (at least in terms of selection if not actual appearance):


  12. Discussions on forums/reddit/etc. invariably mention skipping intro videos as one of the great things about the wiki, so I'd be hesitant to demote it so significantly, especially now that the table of contents is collapsed by default--the average visitor might think there isn't a fix at all.

    As @Antrad mentioned above, the best approach might be to change "essential" to something else for this. One solution would be to have "essential improvements" only for fixes that are absolutely crucial (e.g. the game won't work correctly without this fix) and then just below that have "recommended improvements" (or something) for fixes that are nice to have but not crucial to the experience (add widescreen support, skip intros, and anything else you probably want but don't need). This would separate things nicely without pushing popular fixes down the page, and a lot of pages already have the most crucial fixes first.

  13. 14 hours ago, Antrad said:

    It's has been almost 2 years already, it is surprising to see nothing has been done about this.

    There is no time like the present. 🙂 I have made a sample implementation which you can see examples of at Development:Audio settings/Sandbox.

    The row is hidden when false (without a note), unknown, or missing/empty. The row is shown when false if a note is supplied because there can be special cases where this applies (e.g. the game has CD audio tracks but doesn't actually use it in-game). Hackable and limited are supported and require a note (as usual).

    I have also added a special placeholder note for Windows/Windows 3.x games when the row is true because many (most/all?) Windows games will have problems playing CD audio on modern versions of Windows. As with other placeholder notes this is overridden when a note is provided.

    I used the "Red Book" naming here because this is the term that seems to be used most often on forums etc. (the tooltip mentions Compact Disc Digital Audio and briefly explains what CD audio is).

    Anyway, see what you think.

    EDIT: I used the word "audio" instead of "music" because there are non-music uses (e.g. from memory, Conan the Cimmerian's CD version uses the CD audio tracks for recorded voices whereas the actual music is done just like the non-CD version of the game).

  14. 2 hours ago, Jinx said:

    Are the people who can't download or maybe can't update Metro not on 1903 Windows? Maybe you need that plus the Xbox app beta? Just throwing that out there. I'm going to keep waiting to try gamepass I guess.

    Yes, you'll need the May 2019 Update (1903) for this. If you're not getting it when checking for updates in Windows Update you can download it using the Update Assistant.

  15. Streaming services will be very popular in areas with good internet as long as it provides a "good enough" experience. Those wanting the best experience will still opt for native hardware as usual.

    Streaming is out of the question in many parts of the world due to data caps or poor internet speed. Microsoft's combination approach (streaming plus downloads) is much more accessible because it doesn't rely on internet speed or special server hardware. If your internet access is really slow you can buy the Xbox One disc and only download the latest patch. If Xbox Live (or your internet) goes down you can still play single player games just fine.

    Xbox Game Pass was available worldwide on day one whereas streaming services will be limited to specific countries. Microsoft's approach also opens up some appealing possibilities that can't exist with Stadia (start streaming a game instantly to see if you like it, then download the native version while you're away from your device).

    Project xCloud will probably be publicly available around the time Stadia launches, so Google will be facing immediate competition from a much more established rival.

  16. I'd be in favour of this for the reasons you've outlined.

    @Andytizer If this change happens it would probably make sense to add "settings" to the site tagline in some way to aid incoming searches using that specific keyword.

    On 6/9/2019 at 8:32 PM, Aemony said:

    Side question: should "support" be removed from the "VR support" header as well?

    Yes this would make sense as well for the same reasons (it would also be a good idea to revisit other aspects of the VR template, but that's a subject for a separate topic).

    On 6/9/2019 at 8:36 PM, Aemony said:

    Oh, this would also mean we can actually label our templates and cargo tables for "Audio", "Video", "Input" as well.

    Cargo table names do not have to match the associated templates (see Special:CargoTables for several examples).

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