Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Posts posted by Marioysikax

  1. Not exactly, since it's a scaling of 2D objects/2D plane, not actually increasing the field of view which is a function that applies to a 3D camera (and as such is usually only needed in FPP and TPP games... with some exceptions for RTS games that have ridiculous "zoom"). Yes, we could state whatever the game has some scaling, but a lot of the games will have scaling based on the rendering resolution, anyway (the higher the resolution - the smaller the objects).

    I remember playing sims always with 800x600 as it had better zoom and larger icons. CRT and inaccurate ball mouse times :) 


    Well that was really good example. That actually made me think that I have played Dust 100% trough and I know it has lots of rotating sprites everywhere and not single aliased edge is visible ever. Could it be that some games has mandatory antialiasing applied as rotated sprites would look absolutely awful?

  2. Uh, sure. Guacamelee.

    They use proprietary engine but game seems to have vector based models instead of sprites. Workshop items are done with adobe flash so this would at least hint that's the case: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=166995993 

    If I'm not totally incorrect then game basically renders vector model which causes aliasing in that particular title and antialiasing is definitly needed. Flash games like Binding of Isaac also features vectors and flashs presets high, medium and low are basically AA levels. BUT we also have games like Machinarium which use flash but also use sprites...


    Spoilers next:

    Then we have titles like FEZ which basically is 2D pixel art game done with 3D engine so by default FOV and AA are not needed but after beating game once you get first person view where they should be present. 


    I agree with Garrett that if game is purely 2D games using sprites (like Dust or Metal Slug 3) then FOV, AF and AA should be N/A. 

  3. I might be mistaken, but purely 2D games can and sometimes feature anti-aliasing settings. Its purpose is essentially to get rid of jagged edges. It can be applied to any geometrical shape, and is used in sprite based games 2D (as in flat, not 3D graphics, models, nothing of the kind).

    Can you give me example as I said in first post that usually that antialiasing is image filter which gets rid of pixelated sprites instead of aliasing.


    This might sound weird and off-topic, but... I've just now realized, that if you make a line in Paint, that isn't entirely vertical or horizontal, it's going to be - by default - extremely jaggy. But if I were to make such line in Photoshop - I'll get an option to make it smooth... and now, I've finally realized - that yes, there is a point in Anti-aliasing in 2D graphics. Not like, it's extremely crucial to have it, as many 2D games already have a fixed camera position and they will not apply any rotation to it, not to mantion many of the sprites used in such games are already smoothed out, but I guess distinguishing whatever AA should be n/a or false is a waste of time and we won't be hurting old games, if we just state it's false.

    You must be using really old paint. Windows 7 zoom 800% from bottom right and draw line slowly and it applies AA to it. With photoshop/gimp you can draw lines also without antialiasing if needed though. 

    To me it just seems slightly unfair for 2D games in general to make AA false as even if they did introduse AA for them sprites on older titles are pretty small so AA just makes them blurry. For newer games like Dust: an Elysian Tail you can't see single aliased edge anywhere and that game has literally every PC option it can have so AA is clearly N/A for that.

  4. Now that N/A is in use, I stumbled to one simple problem: does antialiasing apply to games that are 2D? We already know FOV and anisotropic filtering doesn't.


    For most part 2D games are done in way that sprites themselves are antialiased or done in pixel style. However some games like Metal Slug 3 and emulators like zsnes allows you to apply filters which smooths out upscaled pixel graphics (2xSAI, HQ filter, Super Eagle) that are used more with image scaling than antialiasing. They also include other filters like scanlines and CRT effect. Even Desmume only includes filters as they can't increase internal 3D resolution yet.


    I would say 2D games should be N/A for antialiasing as they don't use regular 3D antialiasing methods. Other way of doing things is to make it true/false and then list what upscaling and filtering methods game uses as filters technically remove aliasing.

  5. Well hackable means that you have to do something outside games regular options to make something work (e.g. applying AA with external program) so I would say it should also apply to fan translations as they aquire you to at least download it and possibly apply it in some manner. It would also make it clearer what languages are actually official.

  6. This is especially nice feature for regions that aren't usually translated and has translation patches. Wouldn't it be really easy to make bot just copy/paste attributes from steam store page as it uses significally same kind of table and then just add information for patches, non-steam and older games?

  7. OK, I think I found. some. references for our debating

    I see your points. My simple opinion would be more in-line with this man, but i understand how game developers seems to have invented this weird thing called frame render ahead.


    But I have never experienced such "spike lags" like those tweakguides talks of btw

    An agreement on both fronts could be this (quote from HARDOCP article)


    Advising to raise the framerate 2+ more than your refresh rate for example..... and so on is too longwinded for the common, noob user

    A link to the detailed UE3 smoothing explanation would be better


    btw my testing with dead space revealed that mouse speed never changes under 60FPS.. then, the double the framerate the half the sensitivity

    Yes, you can hack the configuration file, but as the framerate flutter, you'll have you'll have different mouse feedbacks..


    And you are right, linking to #configuration files should always be preferred



    EDIT: Look at Mass Effect page. Do you think this could be a nice compromise?

    Well this definitely turned out to be tougher thing that it looked. You may be right about the longwinded thing too. 

    I'm still in favor of smoothing. I was watching that HARDOCP article image about smoothing that 30fps difference just can't be right when I got something like 1-2fps avarage difference before noticing article was from 2007. I would bet if someone owns monitor with high refresh rate they would at least have medium gaming PC which shouldn't have that much difference in frame rate. BUT that just proofs there may be someone with lower end PC and regular monitor would like to turn smoothing off and so many games default it on! 

    AND that proofs that maybe we shouldn't just put one fix and link to another one so I was wrong with that. Mass effect page may be little too summed up for someone and I think link should be clearer. This way person can fix issue simply reading that box and not having to go to perfect explanation to engine page. I adjusted Mass Effect page a little with those things in mind.


    As for Dead Space I played it like that, didn't have massive problems and was glad that second part wasn't that poor PC job :P

  8. Even if they got usually mixed up, we shouldn't confuse the steady monitor refresh rate with the variable number of frame for second. (what you are saying is true only with v-sync though)

    And btw I feel weird the actual implementation we took (with UE games at least). We should only tell how to disable the cap there. Claiming to raise it is secondary imo, it's the v-sync that should handle the tearing.


    And wtf? Are you claiming you hadn't any hassle with Dead Space running at more than 100 FPS ??

    As soon as I exceeded the 60, game view control became a shit. And when I say this, I mean the worst ever created. Something like I had to move the mouse through the entire mousepad TWO times to turn 90° right

    V-sync in that games is bugged and locks framerate at 30FPS then


    and could you make an example of config path fixing/linking?

    I was just thinking it from perpective of regular user but you are right at that one.


    I still don't see smoothing as cap. Smoothings job isn't to cap or vsync but to smooth out jumping framerate, you can still cap and vsync after smoothing if you want to. I usually put game settings that they run minimum of 60fps so it may go anywhere over 60fps. If I disable smoothing it's clear when game fps goes down fast where with smoothing on you actually have to look at fps meter to see it. So when you are playing the game you won't focus on how framerate goes. To summarize smoothing is actually even more vital with over 60Hz monitors if your computer doesn't have power to output every frame to monitor. For those with 4x Titan rigs it's fine either way but for regular gaming PC it's usually better to go with smoothing instead of lowering settings to look like console game. 

    This is also why smoothing removing fix was listed under engine page so if someone want's to remove there's tutorial for it and if same person runs into same problem at another game (s)he already knows how to do it then. Of course this is just what I have tested and googled, I linked best source I found as reference on engine page. It's still pretty easy to just change the fix and I won't update it to games I do not own. 


    Dead space worked fine with disabling vsync entirely and then turning mouse speed to 2.00 from config. With vsync mouse was unusable and loading times were huge. Like said only problem was flashing lights so I turned on adaptive vsync and everything still worked. It has been some time but I can test it again just out of curiosity. 

    E: Yeap. Perfectly playable with adaptive vsync and 144fps.


    OK most recent example coming to mind is Batman Arkham Asylum, which has Windows and Mac versions available. There doesn't appear to be much Mac gamers though as config directory for mac is missing. Still point is that there's config file listed at the top of the page. When you scroll down every fixbox tells user to "Go to %USERPROFILE%..." even if user used Mac. I don't know how steamworks conversion effected config files but at least there were non-GOTY edition purchareable and Mac still has. For me it sounds fix should link to top of the page instead of rewriting config path over and over again especially when it doesn't apply to every version of the game.

  9. There are some games yeah. Usually if a game supports 120Hz it also support 120 fps as well. But some games do not. You can easily see it by using FRAPS. It shows refresh rate as 120, but frame rate is capped around 60 fps.

    Besides triple buffering there is also an adaptive v-sync option for NVIDIA cards. Personally I like it more than triple buffering.

    Actually Hz and fps gets mixed up a lot as they usually mean same thing with you seeing 120fps so it means 120 frames per second which means it's shown with 120Hz monitor. 

    Only game I actually needed vsync was Dead Space as it had massive screen tearing in areas with blinking lights even with 144Hz monitor but vsync messed everything up. Adaptive vsync actually worked and there wasn't any problems that were related to vsync. 


    As for main problem I think it's now pretty much solved as it clearly states how to get the game working and there's alternative solution and extra info linked. 

    E: What I noticed that many pages actually re-write games config path to fix itself instead of linking it. Isn't this bad especially with games that have mac version or goty edition?

  10. Thanks nicereddy for grammar correction! :3

    There seems to be 27 games which has listed this as fix and I'm sure there's more. What I have researched that smoothed value should be little over refresh rate rather than exact number as it's smoothing instead of hard cap, games "capped" with this method to 30fps also has value of 32 in smoothing so this strengthen the fact. If screen tearing is visible games vsync should work or just force vsync/cap other way as smoothing is there to just - well - smooth instead of syncing or capping. As for crashing issue mentioned in Mass Effect page seems to be related to making config "read only" mode and it's also mentioned in Lost Planet 3 but then Warp seems to need it because of Origin file syncing. References are missing with all the cases so it's really hard to investigate especially when I do not own all of those games. I'm not sure why people put it in "read only" as games usually won't change that value unless you completely remove config file when game regenerates/copies new one. 


    I'll just add note about "read only" crashing with {{CN}} but otherwise at least for me fixbox seems pretty fine now.

  11. Having a sample on the Engine: page is a good idea but it should only be copied onto game pages where it is already present or is known to work since there exceptions to this as already mentioned.


    The section definitely needs some standard name and position. I've been thinking about renaming 120Hz to encompass 144Hz and also be a standardised section name for uncapping, maybe something like "High frame rate (120Hz/144Hz)". Unacceptably low default caps (anything below 60 FPS) would still be a key point as always.

    Well of course it would be applied only the games that the fix works. Thing was there's many of those games ::)

    Yeah, 120hz is most common used but 144hz seems to be new standard and there's even 240hz monitors available. Then you have games like Payday which allows cap to be increased up to 135 which works with 120 but is under 144... Maybe just "High frame rate" would be good enough and comment is it limited to certain amount (many games also use 91 especially with online play) or is game completely uncapped.


    In my opinion the default fix would be to completely disable it.

    Then, if a game use some weird physic engine -which screws gravity if simulation run above 60 FPS- we could note that. But those would be exception (goddamn you, Dead Space)


    Actually, the correct row name should be "frame cap" instead of "120hz". Since 100% of times, I haven't seen issues with the refresh rate itself, but rather with the limiter

    If I had a 120hz then (provided that the game is high-framerate friendly) I would still keep off the framerate limiter.. why should I enable it?


    And I would also like further references about the "reports of game crashing" (in the Mass Effect article)


    Also, I really dislike who use frame limiting as vertical sync, and who use vertical sync as frame limiting

    That may be the main problem as people don't seem to know which is actually better: completely disabling the smoothing or just raise it to match closer to monitors refresh rate? Some even suggest just raising cap to 999! :D

    What I usually seem to find is that solid number on fps counter is far better than jumping uncapped one. That may also be the reason why so many devs but that "cap" in there in first place! Uncapped fps may sound like wonderful idea but usually it's actually worse. Also smoothing isn't cap as cap only locks framerate to certain number where smoothing tries to minimize spikes and smooth out gameplay overall. 

    What I would do is to place smoothing value raising as main fix included in game specific pages and then linking to engine: page which also includes more depth explanation (if even needed) and disabling cap fix.


    Most data on internet is inaccurate and said by random guys who got it working by editing config file and there's no solid data on which actually is the best. I guess that's just the case as higher framerate monitors aren't that usual.


    As with Mass Effect page that crashing was edited by Tmpltd and then just carried over with edits. He's also the one that made the value 120 for some reason and added note about mod clipping audio and longer loading times so it may have been just him messing his computer. I can't find any evidence game actually crashing just because of this. 


    I made first version of the fix. I would would love if someone ironed out spelling errors as said I'm not native english speaker <3

  12. I'm tired and have been editing Wikipedia lately (everyone there is a horrible person, we weren't even testing for that) so I may be mistaken, but is that sarcasm or do you legitimately like the idea?


    Anyway, I think if we made an "Issued fixed" or what-have-you section on the Unreal Engine article as I suggested, we should be able to copy-paste it from there and then modify it on a per-game basis.

    That's seriously best idea, sorry if I sounded sarcastic as I'm not native english speaker >_> (also lol @ portal joke)

    So we (or I or someone) just make perfect version of fix to engine page and then manually copy-paste it to game pages with link to engine page. 


    E: One thing I haven't found perfect answer is that if you actually raise smoothing value should you put it exactly the same as refresh value or 2 higher like it defaults with 60hz monitors in mind? 

  13. I think it would be better to leave them in game's specific pages, even if this means a lot of copy-pasting of exactly the same solutions (asuming people test them, first). Some Unreal games encrypt their config files and I could almost bet there are some Unreal games where going beyond 62fps is going to break some elements of physics, AI behaviour or whatever. Forcing something from graphics driver panel is pretty much the only exception, I'd like to see so far. But this (frame smoothing), DxWnd and similar, I'd prefer having properly described for each game separately - especially if the solution takes only like 3 lines.


    That's my opinion about it so far - I have not bumped into any issues with a page describing 120Hz and how to disable framerate limit. My biggest common problem so far is modifications section and how often they make getting to video settings section difficult via scrolling.

    Well then we should at least have some kind of source/example to copy-paste from? Some pages have it as "essential improvement", some tell you to disable the option completely, some tell you to raise the value to 120 which isn't working with 144hz monitors and so forth. 

    Should I just manually go, edit one page perfect and then just copy paste that to every single game that uses this fix?


    I agree. Also some games (e.g. Deadpool) have hardcoded frame rate cap. And this method does not work with them.

    I was specifically talking about unreal games that has smoothed framerate enabled with value of 62 and plain text ini files as there are tons of those and they all have literally same solution. 



    I think we may want to discuss moving modifications to the "Other information" section, especially since they seem to get very large very often. Although, that's somewhat irrelevant to this thread.


    What I'd recommend doing is adding a section to the Engine:Unreal article which has a general overview of this. Keep the separate versions for each page, but also leave a note on each of those sections that says "For more information, see the Unreal Engine article." or something similar. This is what I do with Source engine games.

    Well that sounds just perfect solution! BUT we still need some example to copy-paste that solution from as now everyone seems to be making their own versions of the solutions which may not work as intended for everyone.

  14. Those who has >60hz monitors want information does game support their display. One thing that has been bothering me is that many Unreal games like to use bSmoothFrameRate with value of 62 which gives best quality with regular 60hz monitor but caps the fps. 

    Problem is that all the games that use it has fix in article but they are all said in differend ways and on differend sections! Here's only few examples: 





    I was thinking as they all seem to be solutions to exact same problem with exact same engine should we just make generig fix to 120hz page and just link to it instead of re-writing solution differendly again as it's games config directory, Xengine.ini with X replaced with games ID and same values.

  • Create New...