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Expack3

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    Expack3 got a reaction from Mirh in Question regarding ATI Truform (pre-DX11 tessellation implementation)   
    As requested by Mirh, below is an archive containing our discussion on this topic for the sake of future reference.
     
    Sent 06 January 2014 - 01:01 AM
    Mirh,
     
    I was wondering if you could give any insight into getting ATI's Truform technology working using modern graphics cards - no programming, mind you, more like hacks, wrappers, or other such programs. Judging from your wiki commits, you seem to be the most familiar with older PC gaming standards, hence why I'm asking you, specifically. If you could please get back to me regarding this, I'd greatly appreciate it!
     
    -Expack3
     

     
    Sent 06 January 2014 - 12:30 PM
    Expack3, on 05 Jan 2014 - 8:01 PM, said:
    Oh
    Ahah, lol
    The funny thing was that i was only 3 at the time of all those Aureal 3D stuff.. but now i understand what has been lost with time.. and i don't think there are so many others people on the Earth who know this. So this is why i'm trying to making old things restoring as plain as possible
     
    Anyway, back to business
    In what game did you need truform? if i have not misunderstood, last ati cards with enabled hardware support were the 9000series
     (another funny thing: the first GPU i bought was a 9250)
     
    I found this (for morrowind), this (for UT2004)
    And, if all games were this easy (you just need to edit an .ini file for UT).. i think we should have done with this :p
    But probably this won't be enough for most game (like i found here)
     
    I saw you have an Intel Core i7 950 @ 3.07GHz, so at a guess, i think you are the first person who interested to the problem with the right chances to succeed (in 2002 they hadn't those 4 4ht cores monsters)
    Give a try to 3DAnalyze too. it's not bad when it comes to emulated graphics cards
     
    And tomorrow school is starting again, so I don't know if I'll have times in the following days
     

     
    Sent 06 January 2014 - 02:54 PM
    Loool
    While I was going on with my usual research on past 3D audio
    i spotted this. So after a quick search between google and web.archive.org i found UnrealTorunament Truform render (whom zip is mirrored here)
    Then, i was able to spot Serious Sam enforcing way too
    Instead in the original Half-Life typing "ati_npatch 1" in the console should be enough to made the trick
     
     
    Last but not least, after finding this i made a quick scan of my registry with "Truform" key and i found that at
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{random numbers}\0000\UMDthen
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\{random numbers}\0000[0001 and even 0002]\UMDand then
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\amdkmdag\UMDI have a string called TruformMode_DEF which is set to 0
    ... I wonder what could happen if i would set it to 1
     
    EDIT: i see you have an nvidia GPU.. so i think that for this last thing i'm alone(nevertheless try to do the same search). Thanks Steam i own Serious Sam the first encounter (the original version).. so I could try later
    ps. various, others, links
     

     
    Sent 12 January 2014 - 04:38 PM
    Hey Mirh,
     
    Sorry I haven't gotten back to you - the forum messenger never notified me of your responses for some reason.
     
    I've got several games which have TruForm support: UT2004 and C&C Renegade. The first one doesn't work with a simple switch of the NPatches line or modifying the tessellation amount - and the OpenGL driver patched for TruForm gives me the error "The procedure entry point GTimestamp could not be located in the dynamic link library Core.dll" and a final error that the OpenGLDrv file cannot be found (see EDIT). The latter has NPatches support which - apparently - is stripped from the game when using the latest Tiberium Technologies patches, so I'll have to re-install the game to re-enable TruForm support before I come to a conclusion. Also, emulating DirectX 8.1 in software using 3D-Analyze doesn't seem to do anything for TruForm support, even when tricking games into thinking I'm using a Raedon 8500, and I'm unable to find any truform keys in my system registry. It's a frustrating dead-end, to be sure!
     
    However, the fact that AMD's current drivers still seem to have TruForm references in its registry entries seems promising for you - I hope it ends up paying out (metaphorically)! Furthermore, in the event it does pay out, be sure to post the results (pictures and video included) on other sites besides PCGamingWiki, such as the Reddit sub r/games and YouTube - if TruForm can still be used on modern AMD GPUs, the world needs to hear about it as it would be a colossal boon for retro games!
     
    Good luck, and I hope to be able to be of some use in getting TruForm to work.
     
    Expack3
     
    EDIT: I have no idea why I thought an OpenGL driver for the original Unreal Engine would work on an Unreal Engine 2 game...stupid me! :(
     

     
    Sent 13 January 2014 - 01:07 AM
    Ahah, the hugeness of the improvements of this technology seems to be second only to mine Aureal 3D restoration :p
    For this latter, the only place where i thought I could find fellow audiophiles was head-fi.org
    But I wouldn't know were to post about truform. And.. how to say? I'm "hesitant" when facing the biig reddit
     
    Anyway, let me sum up:
    Truform should be a toggleable setting in the in-game options? Or it's something driver force-able in every Dx8 game (like antialiasing for example)? Because i was thinking the first.. but I gave a look to serious sam and i couldn't find it (even though it's listed in the readme file as present there..)
    I tried forcing it through the console.. but I got no answers.. so without errors or any other thing, I can't try
     
    Going with madden NFL 2004 demo tomorrow.. I hope it will be easier to find the setting.. but it seems even 10 years ago they had their problems
     
    If i'm not nosey, could i ask where you first see this technology?
    And  if you know, is it really this graphical improvement?
     

     
    Sent 14 January 2014 - 11:12 PM
    Mirh, on 12 Jan 2014 - 8:07 PM, said:
    Sounds like a plan, my good fellow. :)
     
    Since you aren't being nosey at all (seriously - you raised a good, valid question!), I first saw TruForm when I stumbled across a rather unusual set of commands while digging through theFallout New Vegas config file for things to tweak. Given as I don't have a graphics card which would actually run TruForm, I can't say whether TruForm actually works with the game or if it was disabled by the developers. However, I did some preliminary research, and then, being a UT2004 owner, I thought to myself, "I can has tessellation in mah Unreal Tournament?! Made of epic win!!!" (Translation: There's tessellation in UT2004? Awesome!)
     
    Also, as you might have noticed in your research, it depends on the game. Some games, like C&C Renegade, seem to have models designed explicitly for TruForm - thus resulting in a dramatic quality increase when the technology is turned on. Those whose models which weren't optimized for TruForm, such as Serious Sam, tend to have issues like absurd, balloon-like objects caused by models having too sharp of angles. (This behavior was corrected in TruForm 2.0, but by then, no-one cared about the technology anymore.)
     

     
    Sent 15 January 2014 - 04:44 PM
    Expack3, on 14 Jan 2014 - 6:12 PM, said:
    Fallout new vegas .ini file entries must date back to the TES:morrowind engine
     
    Anyway, NFL demo really sucks for what i'm looking for
    So, fortunately, i found neverwinter nights and rainbow six raven shield demos (it's incredible how common game trials where years ago)
     
    It seems Turform on nvidia was possible but i can't understand how. Even more, truform support has been cut off from ATI drivers itself, so I don't think registry hack could work (even though i haven't tried yet)
     
    I would try DXTweaker if i had the time. I has a plugin which "Forces global activation for N-Patch Tesselation if available on the graphics adapter."
    But probably we would need another step, something like a wrapper... Dunno..
     
    I'm starting thinking this summer (ie, when i have plenty of free time) i could resurrect my old 9250(and windows xp :/) and see there what variables i'm missing
     
    we'll see
    ps. technical reading here
     

     
    Sent 28 January 2014 - 02:18 PM
    Ok sorry for the delay.
    School is back again and so on..
    Anyway, when I'll finish the other stuff i'm working on I'll focus on this (ETA ..1 month?)
    For now I just wanted to report I found this tool which let you spoof graphics card vendor
    Rivatruner should made your day if you an nvidia gpu too
     
    If I'm not wrong Radeon 8500 should be our target GPU (since it was that with more truform capabilities, please check)
    According to pcidatabase.com, AMD's vendor id is 0x1002, while the specific gpu one is 0x514C or 0x516C
    Let me know any your other progress ;)
    Cheers
     

     
    Sent 25 February 2014 - 03:48 PM
    Would you mind moving this private chat to your original public thread?
    I mean, for future references
     
    I count to finish my endless A3D odyssey in a week or so, and then I could even start looking into this
    If this doesn't mind you of course, otherwise I could do this when I'll found time
  2. Like
    Expack3 reacted to Nicereddy in "Not Applicable" Option for Settings Templates   
    I like it, I think it works well as it contrasts with all the currently used icons.
  3. Like
    Expack3 reacted to Nicereddy in "Not Applicable" Option for Settings Templates   
    I've seen multiple ways of dealing with settings which are N/A or Not Applicable, most of which are not preferable for various reasons. Sometimes editors will just delete the "unknown" and leave that line blank, or simply delete the line entirely. Both of these aren't preferable both for wiki automation using bots and simple aesthetics.
     
    I'd like to propose an N/A option alongside the current true, false, and unknown options. This would be usable for multiple cases. Games which don't use the mouse wouldn't require mouse acceleration, games which don't have voice acting wouldn't require subtitles, and games which are 2-dimensional wouldn't require an FOV slider. I think this would be much better for unifying all settings templates across all pages, so that there aren't any pages which have only a few rows on their table due to the irrelevance of many of the settings.
     
    Thoughts?
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