Satsun

Going back to what gorilli09 is requesting, this is simple enough to do; just define "Microsoft Spatial Sound" in the Audio table, because I'm 99% confident that any Windows game that can output Atmos to an HDMI audio device is using Microsoft Spatial Sound (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/coreaudio/spatial-sound). It's that easy because this is a Windows 10+ feature, games either support it or they don't and we don't need to be concerned with defining every aspect of spatial audio, we only need to note when this specific Microsoft/Windows feature is used in games just like we do with EAX, DirectX, HDR, ultra widescreen, DLSS, gamepads and so on. If I were to create a field breakdown for the audio template (https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/PCGamingWiki:Editing_guide/Audio), this is an example of what I'd submit: Field Microsoft Spatial Sound Definition Microsoft’s platform-level solution for spatial sound support on Windows enabling both surround and elevation (above or below the listener) audio cues. How to find Games will either automatically utilize this feature or in-game options will be available and usable, but only when a spatial sound option is selected via the Windows system sound device settings. Notes At least Windows 10 is required. Windows Sonic for Headphones is a native Windows option that will enable this feature in games. Connecting a Dolby Atmos or DTS:X HDMI AV receiver or soundbar or using applications such as DTS Sound Unbound and Dolby Access will populate more spatial sound device options in the Windows sound device properties. Height speakers will be utilized by Atmos or DTS:X HDMI devices, but usage may vary by game.

That thread is a good example of how broad the subject can be, but maybe I need to reword or clarify what I'm suggesting. My understanding of Microsoft Spatial Sound is that it's a feature just like DirectStorage or HDR. When a game supports any of the aforementioned features, an end user can leverage that feature when they have the appropriate components or peripherals attached to their PC such as an HDMI AV receiver, DirectX 12 GPU and PCIe SSD, or HDR display. Microsoft Spatial Sound is a Windows 10+ feature that allows games to hand off audio data to an end-user device or application for processing; support for the feature can be summarized with a true/false statement and we don't need to be concerned with how that audio is being manipulated by the end user's audio device or audio application because that's beyond the scope of simply identifying if the feature is present or not. If I were to create a field breakdown for the audio template (https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/PCGamingWiki:Editing_guide/Audio), this is an example of what I'd submit: Field Microsoft Spatial Sound Definition Microsoft’s platform-level solution for spatial sound support on Windows enabling both surround and elevation (above or below the listener) audio cues. How to find Games will either automatically utilize this feature or in-game options will be available and usable, but only when a spatial sound option is selected via the Windows system sound device settings. Notes At least Windows 10 is required. Windows Sonic for Headphones is a native Windows option that will enable this feature in games. Connecting a Dolby Atmos or DTS:X HDMI AV receiver or soundbar or using applications such as DTS Sound Unbound and Dolby Access will populate more spatial sound device options in the Windows sound device properties. Height speakers will be utilized by Atmos or DTS:X HDMI devices, but usage may vary by game. I know of at least 19 games released since 2018 that support Microsoft Spatial Sound and this currently seems to be more common with games that utilize Wwise middleware, so apparently Audiokinetic has made it easy for developers to use the feature and I think it's worth noting in the Audio table particularly for people that use Dolby Atmos speaker configuration because that's where this feature really shines.

I'm looking for input on how to approach adding more information to the Audio table because I want to note when games support height speakers (Atmos / spatial audio). I could note spatial audio in the surround sound row, but I'm concerned that the surround sound comments field might get cluttered, so I'm suggesting the addition of a Microsoft Spatial Sound row in the Audio table to denote when games properly use Microsoft Spatial Sound. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/coreaudio/spatial-sound Microsoft Spatial Sound is how games are able to send height audio to either HDMI AV receivers and soundbars (for Dolby Atmos, DTS:X) or headphones (via DTS Sound Unbound and Dolby Access apps). Games don't need to have specific support for Dolby Atmos to output Dolby Atmos, they only need to interface with Microsoft Spatial Sound and the rest is handled by Windows based on how the user has their audio device configured in Windows. I can determine which games properly interface with Microsoft Spatial Sound by enabling Dolby Atmos for home theater in Windows and then watching for Dolby Atmos to activate on my AV receiver when launching games, so I'd like to start adding this information to the site.

I have a Samsung CHG70 HDR monitor connected with DisplayPort. I typically do not have HDR enabled in the Windows 10 UI because it looks bad and most games that support proper HDR will simply switch the monitor to HDR mode as needed. If HDR is enabled in the Windows 10 UI, games that don't natively support HDR typically switch the monitor to non-HDR mode, however, I've noticed some non-HDR games not switching out of HDR mode. Detroit: Become Human (Steam demo) - Has an HDR option in its config file (GraphicOptions.JSON -- "HDR": true,), no option in the in-game settings, doesn't switch to non-HDR mode, doesn't look like it's really doing HDR. It does support HDR on PS4, but I have a cheap TV with very basic HDR (DisplayHDR 400 equivalent) so I can't do a comparison. Team Sonic Racing - No indication it supports HDR, but it leaves the monitor in HDR mode Both games are running fullscreen, not borderless window. Could it be that they're not in exclusive fullscreen? Is there any benefit to leaving the monitor in HDR mode for these games?

I agree that the audio section should be broken out more for the spatial audio options, going as far as having separate boxes for EAX, A3D, and just "Spatial" or "Windows Spatial". My primary justification is because I really like how this list of HDR games is able to be generated based on that box being checked in a game's page. Since EAX, A3D, and Windows Spatial are all different enough, I think it would be a bit frustrating to be looking for a modern game with spatial options based on the 'EAX' box and have tech that hasn't been relevant for over a decade mixed in with the results. I've been noticing that spatial notes are being put in the EAX field, so I'm guessing a decision regarding this hasn't been made within the past year. 😄

Are you saying that FMOD and Wwise are not APIs? I don't know for sure, but at least this guy and this guy calls them APIs. Wwise and FMOD are definitely their own audio engine but they also have their own API since they don't depend on DirectX. FMOD does have some hardware and EAX features that depend on OpenAL, but other than that FMOD is its own entity. I believe that FMOD and Wwise just go straight

I'm sure I need to do some clean-up on my page but I'm not too concerned with researching very deep into DirectSound and XAudio2, I do need to make sure that I'm using the correct terminology, though! :D When it comes to looking at a shipped game, I don't know how to differentiate between XAudio2 and XACT. I did see the note about MS recommending people use XACT but many games seem to have XAudio2 references in their executable so I just mark those as an XAudio2 game. I think I marked Bastion as XACT because it had no XAudio2 references but it has some sound banks associated with XACT (XWB files); many XAudio2 games also seem to have XACT sound banks so I'm not sure precisely which specific Microsoft API is being used. I have seen the quote "removes the 6-channel limit on multichannel sounds" and I was not sure why they said that. Most DirectSound-based games I've tested output 7.0/7.1. I think that maybe whoever wrote that did not know that DirectSound could already output to 8 speakers. I can't currently find it, but I read that XAudio2 can output to many more speakers, I guess for if they want to output to something like a Dolby ProLogic IIz (9.1) configuration. I have also read that OpenAL can supposedly output to any number of speakers; maybe it can. I don't know what the theoretical maximum number is, but very few people have 7.1 speakers and most consumer-level sound devices are either 5.1 or 7.1 so I leave it at that. I don't understand what you're saying about Mass Effect 1, I think we have some language barrier issues. :) I tried to play ME1 in the past but that game crashed very often and I lost interest. Mass Effect 1 uses OpenAL, if that is what you're talking about. Wwise was used in ME 2 and 3. I would like to know more about audio APIs but I would prefer if someone that already had experience could explain it all because it seems somewhat complicated.

I wouldn't mind contributing to adding audio software to the engine area. Some games have similar audio issues and I've noticed that these issues are typically related to the audio engine so if people had that information to reference then they might know what to expect. One common issue that was brought to my attention was odd center channel use in games that use Wwise; Dishonored and Borderlands 2 are just a couple games that exhibit this issue.

Alright, so there is definitely something different about Fallout 3. The environmental effects don't seem different but certain sound effects play differently. Without ALchemy, surround sound still works but sounds are played differently. I went into a subway and noticed my footsteps playing in the center channel, this is without ALchemy. With ALchemy, the footstep sound was played in the two from speakers. I don't think FO3 uses EAX and surround definitely works without ALchemy, but it seems that using ALchemy definitely changes something so it is probably safe to say that if you want the best sound experience that you should use DS3D restoration software with Fallout 3. I might boot to Windows XP to see how the audio in these games performs there but that might not happen for another 1.5 weeks. Tested Oblivion and Fallout NV and they both have the same behavior. For Crysis, I didn't notice any difference. There don't appear to be any references to DSOUND.DLL in any of Crysis' files. I'll have to check out those other games.

This makes sense. Without the HAL, the game falls back to software / stereo mode but I assume this only happens in DirectSound3D games. DirectSound games that don't use the DirectSound3D component, work normally in software with surround sound. An example of that would be Fallout 3 and New Vegas. Those games use just DirectSound (no DS3D) and their surround sound works fine in NT6. Maybe it is different usage of DS and DS3D. Most DirectSound games I have tested that don't use EAX have functioning surround sound in software mode but most games that have EAX seem to fall back to stereo in software mode and of course EAX is disabled. I have assumed that if a game did not use EAX, then it should use software-based DirectSound but it seems that perhaps some games use DirectSound3D even though they do not use EAX or audio hardware features. The trend I have seen is with Miles Sound System games like DNF, Half-Life 2, and Team Fortress 2, they don't use EAX but maybe they use DS3D because using ALchemy fixes surround sound problems. Source engine games with MSS have environmental audio effects but I assume it is done in software with MSS. I'm not sure if DS3D did any type of reverb effects in software outside of EAX. DS3D games that have EAX sound very dry with EAX disabled so it seems that those games depended entirely on EAX to provide environmental effects. In short, if a game was programmed for DirectSound in software mode, everything works fine in NT6, but if the game was programmed for DirectSound3D then audio breaks in NT6 regardless of if it used EAX. I think it basically comes down to if a game is trying to use DS features that were affected by NT6 then the audio breaks in NT6, but if the game was programmed using the most basic (software) DS features then it is unaffected. I think this is just an issue with DOOM 3. When DOOM 3 was initially released it used DirectSound. They later releast a patch (1.3) that added EAX 4 support and OpenAL (OpenAL not mentioned in patch notes). My guess if that they left the DirectSound portion as-is and just implemented the EAX stuff with OpenAL so the game will only recognize EAX when OpenAL is available.

I want to explain what i know about gaming audio so that it's clear why I write what I write in the wiki. What I've learned is from observation, since I don't program games I don't know the finer details; it would be nice if someone that knew such info could chime in. DirectSound DirectSound seems to have been the basis for Windows-based games between 1996 and 2007. What I mean by that, is that there were other audio tools or APIs, such as Miles Sound System, but it pretty much piggybacked on DirectSound. Unreal's audio plugin was Galaxy Audio, which also used DirectSound. It seems like every audio API of the time routed back to DirectSound. Also, if a game had EAX, it used DirectSound. In the past, EAX was a component of DirectSound 3D (DirectSound 3D was a component of DirectSound). When DirectSound 3D stops working properly (Vista and newer), EAX stops working and, as a side effect, surround sound stops working. In DirectSound games that don't use EAX or DirectSound 3D, surround sound works fine in newer Windows versions without the need for DirectSound restoration software; I don't exactly know why that is but I assume that DS3D simply depends on something that was cut off after Vista. Some games that don't use EAX still need DirectSound restoration software for surround sound to work properly; I assume this is because of shoddy coding, but it's typically games that use Miles Sound System (Duke Nukem Forever, Source engine games to some extent). XAudio2 replaced DirectSound. XAudio2 has its own software-based environmental effects and I've not seen mention of it having any Creative EAX features.. RAGE, Wolfenstein TNO, Far Cry 3, Watch Dogs, and the Windows versions of Metro 2033 and Last Light use XAudio2, just to name a few games. OpenAL OpenAL was initially created by Loki Software, a Linux software developer, and later obtained by Creative. OpenAL is able to access hardware features of sound devices in newer operating systems, it is its own audio API, no DirectSound required. I think that Creative hoped to use OpenAL as a vessel to keep EAX alive through the changes made to Windows Vista but I have a feeling that a lack of support (surprise!) and lack of tools provided by Creative has lead to OpenAL not being very popular and lead to the death of EAX. I'm under the impression that EAX 4 and 5 only work with OpenAL and not DirectSound. DOOM 3 (not BFG edition) refuses to activate EAX 4 unless you have OpenAL installed. Some OpenAL-based games seem have a DirectSound dependency (UT2004, Postal 2) that makes it seem like the game's OpenAL software isn't properly communicating with your audio drivers. UT2004 and Postal 2 seem to respond to DS3D restoration software; I get EAX effects in UT2004 and surround sound restored in Postal 2. Doesn't make much sense to me since an OpenAL game shouldn't need DirectSound, I just try various things and go with what works. FMOD FMOD is a fairly popular API because it includes tools (a GUI) that make integrating audio into games fairly simple for audio creators and not just programmers. FMOD is an audio API that primarily does audio on the CPU but can access EAX features and offload to audio hardware. Some examples of FMOD using EAX would be Cryostasis and the first BioShock. You may notice that both of those games mention OpenAL. What is likely happening is that FMOD is leveraging OpenAL to access EAX 4/5 features. FMOD is still doing the hard work, it's just accessing OpenAL for help. Of course, now days with stronger CPUs, hardware-based audio processing isn't really necessary and FMOD is very good at doing its own environmental effects in software on the CPU. The Crysis games use FMOD with software mixing and I thought that Crysis 2 and 3 sounded very good. Wwise Wwise is similar to FMOD in that it's easy for audio creators to use but I don't think that it can access EAX features. That doesn't matter, though, because I've been fairly impressed with Wwise's environmental effects. My only complaint with Wwise was that they didn't initially support 7.1 output but they added that feature in October 2013. I think that Thief (2014) was the first Wwise-based game to support 7.1 and then the Outlast developers seemed to have updated the game's Wwise implementation and it now outputs at least 7.0 audio. Wwise and FMOD are both pretty good with their software-based environment effects, some games do sound ugly but it seems to depend on the person implementing the audio. My page has info about what games us what API: http://satsun.org/audio/

Thanks. Still learning how wikis function. :)

Do you know how to find the "Sound card" entry through the site? Where is it located? I cannot find it by browsing, it only comes up while searching via Google. I've been thinking about it and perhaps the 'Sound card' information can be moved to the "Sound" entry in an area dedicated to legacy audio. Anything related to surround sound, EAX, and A3D restoration in older games will most definitely fall under legacy audio. I will begin working on organizing the information. Your sound card entry has most information necessary so I'm going to build on that.

Because some older games require a wrapper to enable DirectSound features (surround sound, EAX, A3D) in post-XP operating systems, I was considering creating a guide dedicated to the subject so that it could be linked when a game required such a fix. Doing a little research, I found this (http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Glossary:Sound_card) page that has a good bit of the necessary information but I can't find a way to manually navigate to that page through PCGW, I found it doing an external Google search; it doesn't appear to be in any list. While manually searching the site, I found this (http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Glossary:Sound) page that also has some information regarding DirectSound restoration post-XP (in the Stubs section). To make this clear, the reason you would use Creative ALchemy, Realtek 3D SoundBack, ASUS DS3D GX, or C-Media Xear3D EX is because a game uses specific DirectSound features for audio output and those DirectSound features are no longer natively supported in post-XP operating systems. I would like to take related information from the sources above and consolidate it all into one area dedicated to DirectSound restoration. I considered making a separate guide but noticed that there is already a DirectX entry. I could either create a DirectSound entry on the DirectX page or create a completely separate guide. Basically, I'd like to relocate and add to the 'legacy audio effects' section from "Glossary:Sound card" entry to be under DirectX/DirectSound and possibly remove the information from the "Glossary:Sound" entry so as to not have duplicate information. Any input?