standardising game data

[Garrett 212]

Currently pages use a wide variety of terms to refer to the base folder for games that store files there (<install dir>, <gamedir>, etc.); I don't have any particular preference in this regard but I'd like one consistent way to refer to this since this would benefit everyone.

 

Another option is to omit one altogether and leave it to the reader to assume that a file/folder name without anything prior to it means it is relative to the installation folder.

 

Yet another option would be to have a mini-template for this, so the path looks something like:

 

(installation folder)\saves

 

...with italics or something to indicate that it is not part of a valid relative/explicit path that can be pasted into the OS to use directly.

[Mirh 102]

imho, we should also find out a way to point out that whenever the game is running without admin privileges and it tries to write in a protected folder (e.g. program files) it's files are redirected to %LOCALAPPDATA%\Virtualstore

 

and we should also streamline situation like this where we need to make everytime a distinction between 32 and 64 bit systems

[Garrett 212]

VirtualStore is only relevant when installing under Program Files, which is mostly only applicable to legacy retail versions. Steam and most MMOGs change the folder permissions to save directly under Program Files. GOG's new installers use a custom folder (C:\GOG Games) so it's fixed for those too.

[Pridit 39]

I also want to chip in on this by saying that I don't think we should use Windows etc in the game data if it's only available for one operating system, this makes sense if there are multiple but not just one. If it's just one, we should stick to the sample article and have two rows.

 

For the sake of articles being created/edited by forms I'll forgo that, as I understand that SMW couldn't be so dynamic. I really don't want to be counter-productive here. Once I do the sample article revamp, this can be properly implemented if there is no further discussion on this specific matter. Until then, please just abide the current standards of the sample article for the sake of consistency.

[Nicereddy 109]

I'd definitely like a "<path-to-game>" template, maybe just {{pathtogame}}? It would also be useful to have a scrollover text (like full controller support has currently) for it to explain what it means, as it may not be immediately obvious to many users.

[Suicide machine 53]

I like the idea of <path-to-game> and <user-id>. Although, I gotta say, I always liked pointing out locations for Steamworks exclusive games like this:

Steam\steamapps\common\Shadow Harvest (damn, what a nice example... Shadow Harvest... lol)

 

This kind of makes sense, because even if you set up an external Steam library folder, the location is going to be (name of a folder)\steamapps\common\folder of a game. Then, however you can always right click on a title in Steam library, go to properties, local files and there is a button there that send you exactly where it's needed (although, from what I've seen - a lot of people don't know it), hence I limited myself to such format only for Steamworks exclusive games with it.

 

Other related problem - can I suggest to do gamedata tables for multiple operating systems like (unless someone has a better idea):

==Game data==
===Save game location===
{{Game Location Table|
{{Game Location Table/row|Windows|}}
{{Game Location Table/row|OS X|}}
}}

===Configuration files location===
{{Game Location Table|
{{Game Location Table/row|Windows|}}
{{Game Location Table/row|OS X|}}
}}

It gets a bit confusing, when a game gets ported and someone converts an empty Game Location Table from:

==Game data==
{{Game Location Table|
{{Game Location Table/row|Save game location|}}
{{Game Location Table/row|Configuration files location|}}
}}

to

==Game data==
{{Game Location Table|
{{Game Location Table/row|Windows|}}
{{Game Location Table/row|OS X|}}
}}

and then, when someone actually come ups knowing where config files or save files are, one has no idea where to put it.

[Nicereddy 109]

I really like the "default installs to {{File|}}." idea. Preferably it'd be simplified to a template like:

{{DefaultFile|}}

{{DefaultWindowsFile|}}

{{DefaultOSXFile|}}

{{DefaultLinuxFile|}}

As for "<path-to-game>", I'd really like a template for it, as I've already suggested. Preferably it'd be something like "{{Path}}" or "{{pathtogame}}" and would allow for a scroll-over text, since at the moment it may not be immediately obvious to many users what <path-to-game> means.

 

 

I agree with implementing everything in Soeb's post as it stands, but we can of course change it if need be.

[Garrett 212]

Soeb's suggested layout sounds good. I especially like having a standard of specifying exactly what particular files are for; some pages already do this.

 

It would definitely be useful to have mini-templates for the common placeholders (base installation folder, Steam user ID... something else I'm forgetting?)

 

Listing default folders isn't simple because on Windows it varies between distributors, so you're right back to having multiple paths for a platform. It might be better to have the placeholders link to a page explaining how to find such locations. There are only a few ways game files are stored for each OS and they can usually be reached in a couple of clicks.

[Nicereddy 109]

I would definitely be good with a monospaced font for the Location column. The table looks very strange if it has more than the normal 1-line row height and this would help remedy that in many cases. It also makes it more obvious that the text is used to illustrate file location, like the <code> tags do elsewhere.

[Zachasme 0]

Hello everyone.

Regarding default installation folders: I agree that listing them isn't trivial (cf. #10) and that using a single "{{ii}} default installs..." will be impossible. However, not listing them at all, instead providing a placeholder link to a helpful page, IMHO would be a waste of useful information. :-) I suggest adding a table for them, prepending appropriate base-directory-templates that link to a page explaining them (e.g. <program-files> linking to a page explaining 32/64-bit differences and how some files are piped to the virtual store, etc.) and perhaps providing tooltips with short explanations. Here is an example I made:

 

 

IMHO this would avoid many of the multiple listings while still providing information about the base installation folder.

[Garrett 212]

Just an odd thought, we should probably rename the template as well, to either clarify its purpose or shorten the name. In the mean time I moved it to the lower-case variant (matching all other templates), but a new name wouldn't hurt.

 

How about just Template:Game data? The other templates are named the same as the page sections.

[Nicereddy 109]

Hello everyone.

 

Regarding default installation folders: I agree that listing them isn't trivial (cf. #10) and that using a single "{{ii}} default installs..." will be impossible. However, not listing them at all, instead providing a placeholder link to a helpful page, IMHO would be a waste of useful information. :-) I suggest adding a table for them, prepending appropriate base-directory-templates that link to a page explaining them (e.g. <program-files> linking to a page explaining 32/64-bit differences and how some files are piped to the virtual store, etc.) and perhaps providing tooltips with short explanations. Here is an example I made:

 

 

IMHO this would avoid many of the multiple listings while still providing information about the base installation folder.

 

I think the separation by distributor would complicate things needlessly and require a lot more changes to our current system than would be preferable. It does bring up the important point that different retailers would have different locations and how we should go about handling that issue, however. For the most part, once you get into the default directory of the distributor (Steam, GOG, etc.) the game would most likely have similar file structure, although there are exceptions. This could potentially be worked around using the previously suggested "{{DefaultFile}}" template, albeit it may require separate Default File templates for each distributor as well as each operating system.

 

Currently, we're able to fill out the page even if only one editor owns the game, unfortunately this would require either one editor owning the game on multiple services or otherwise having multiple editors work on a single game. While this would be nice for completeness of the wiki, it may discourage editors and cause needless friction. I'm not particularly experienced in regards to the differences between game locations across different services, so if anyone else is more knowledgeable feel free to call me out on any inaccuracies.

 

Nonetheless, the suggestion and work put into it is greatly appreciated, and I'm sure others will find use for parts of the suggestion in the final template.

[Garrett 212]

I have made an initial version of the path template in my sandbox with options for <path-to-game>, <user-id>, HKEY_CURRENT_USER and HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE.

 

Each has a tooltip description and links to the game data page (which doesn't exist yet). Are there any other options to be included?

[Zachasme 0]

Options for %APPDATA%, %LOCALAPPDATA% and steamcloud (userdata/uid/gid/) would probably be helpful as well.

 

Depending on the level of granularity you are aiming for, options might be added for Windows documents and the Linux home-directory.

[Garrett 212]

The Steam user ID is already covered by <user-id>.

 

The plan was to only include the placeholders since they aren't valid for OS paths whereas with environmental variables like %APPDATA% the path provided can be pasted into a folder address bar or whatever on that OS and it will go to that location.